Hi Guys,

if you had to choose between the two (and only these two), which would you go for and why?

We have done both exclusively for 15 years. The answer is ELAN all day everyday and 2x on Sunday.

The only area we bother with RTI anymore is some commercial/conference room type systems.

The one area RTI had over ELAN was more product spread across various budget points. That is no longer the case with the addition of the HR10 remote and the KP7 keypad.

My life is so much better the further we get away from RTI.

I’m not a dealer for either, and I only have very limited experience with both, but just based on what I’ve read over the years from integrator forums, I would definitely lean toward Elan.

The more important question is: why are you limited to those two?

I'm not limited to these two, we are already a Crestron dealer of 18 years, and a Savant dealer of 5 years standing.

Occasionally I am asked NOT to offer those two as solutions as clients have had bad or expensive experiences with these in the past from other sources.

Sometimes it is easier in the long run to respect their choice and sell them something else, rather than convince them kicking and screaming that their experience with us handling the project will be much better. It only needs something to not work as expected for them to then go down the "I told you so" route and then everything after just becomes tainted.

I don't think I want to go down the C4 route as our area (London UK) is saturated with dealers, and the C4 sales model seems to be take a sizeable joining fee and then strike you off if you don't do £xx amount in the first twelve months. Many of our projects have 12-18 month gestation periods where construction is taking place before we can even issue cable to site let alone equipment!

We have used RTI remotes for many years with the Crestron 433 gateways, and have immediate access to distribution.

Elan I have a distributor wanting to get me on board.

Both involve chargeable training and so I wanted to get a heads up on which might be the better choice.

You sound like you have your mind made up but...

Another strategy IMO would be to put together a demo system with an iPad and processor. Hand it to the client and show them what a properly done system looks like.

Every time we run into someone who "hates" or "doesnt want" they immediately change their tune when we explain to them that Crestron (in our case) isn't a remote control or music streamer or shades...its a development platform....that just needs the right developers (you).

Over the last 20 or so years we have worked with many products. The mostly painful/expensive thing i have dealt with is trying to learn/be good at/keep track of all these different systems. I remember when our last Phast system got upgraded i cried a little then got drunk then cried some more...happy tears. I survived...it was finally over.

Its difficult enough just keeping up with one manufacturers upgrades and software.

For me, this is the major factor. I spent 10 years with a smallish company that was always in-and-out of control system lines. Crestron, Pronto, Lutron, URC, RTI, NetStreams, ProControl, Elan, Niles. Nobody was an expert at more than one or two of the lines, and it became untenable to service all of the legacy systems out there when the "RTI guy" wasn't on the team anymore.

My current company only does one control system...and because of that, everyone can solve almost every issue that comes up. We know the tripwires. And, because we have a high level of expertise, we are the guys who get referred by that control system manufacturer to fix the botched installs other less-focused dealers leave behind.

My advice to you would be to have a handy set of clients that are happy being advocates for your company. Nothing will put an end to the "I had Crestron in my last house and it never worked right, it's garbage and I'll never buy it again!" statement like saying "I understand why you feel that way, I've made a big part of my reputation by fixing jobs just like what you are describing. Here is a list of a few of my clients that have Crestron in their home that have had a very different experience, I think you should talk to them."

I never understood the desire or need to have more than a middle and high end control system. more is just mud. The old saying "jack of all trades, master of none" comes into play.

Really? so you dont do more than one discipline then?

Or...do you install distributed audio, distributed video, home theatre, lighting control, HVAC control, Wi-Fi, data networks, VOIP, door entry, CCTV, electric curtains and shades, etc?

We are all already "Jack of All Trades" my friend, that ship has sailed.....

I see no problem in adding another 'configuration based' control system to the long and disparate list of technologies that we have to be able to deal with competently.

Ultimately they are just another tool in the arsenal of our 'glue' that binds everything together.

Another old adage is "if the only tool you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail"

Nick, lol. valid points. My point I see no need to have multiple control systems, particularly one that are pretty much capable of the same things: rti, elan, C4, savant, urc. Master one and rule your kingdom. You've be hard pressed to master them all, and there is no need! Sure you could staff up, but why? Ive never lost a deal because I didnt carry c4 over URC (aside from the typical "my crap doesnt work can you fix it", no, we dont carry that line nor have any desire). Customers dont care what control system you carry as 99% of them have never heard the name before anyway nor have any idea what they are capable of.

I have a customer with a large Crestron system. I'm not a Crestron dealer and couldn't fully fix it, but I could improve a few things. This is the worst control system that I've ever encountered. There was a divorce and the house was eventually sold. Based on this experience, I doubt that this customer will use any sort of control system in the future. I also don't know what the new owners will do (it's component video based), but this is not my problem.

LOVE THIS!

Between Elan and Rti, if you already do Rti with crestron, I’d say stick with Rti. Learning curve isn’t too steep for small systems, and you already have some experience with setting it up.

I stick with C4 these days, I’ll do Rti for some commercial, ELAN is fine, but a whole new commitment.

I am curious to here more details on this. I currently offer RTI. I have my issues at times and my concerns with the brand. I haven't spent enough time with other brands to rule out I wouldn't have similar issues with those however. So again I am curious to hear more details as to why life is better without RTI. What was bad about them, what is better with Elan?

In gTools you have a list of all your client systems names you simply click on the name and log into the programming interface. No difference between being on their couch or mine. You program the process and all client devices/interfaces instantly update.

Firmware is also remotely upgradable. They just released a new core module for the processors, you simply click on the .exe and it updates everything in 5 minutes.

All ELAN supported drivers are rolled into the core as well. So rather then spending your life trying to make sure what firmware version, and what driver version then downloading this and that then running around the clients house with various USB cables to upload. You simply download the core, type in a system name/password then go grab a coffee.

As for programming/configuring you simply select a communication device (232 port #) then select a driver and a configured GUI spits out the other end. Sometimes you do some tweaking to fix up little things but for the most part the stock UI is as good or better then most RTI ones.

We could knock out the programming of an 8x8 distributed Audio and Video, with 8 Surveillance cameras, 4 TSTATS, Security system, Irrigation system, Doorbird, Lighting and Shades in a day or so.

We did a ton of RTI going back to the original T1 RP1/RP6 days before they even had any keypads or 2way comms or any of that stuff.

My last good sized RTI project was an 8x8 type system using Terrys virtual matrix driver and by the end of that system I just had enough hunting down some check mark on an IR routing table on a 150 page iPanel program. Then going to every page to make sure my stacked icons all lined up perfectly through every single page, then digging back through them because some variable was wrong.

ELAN kicks RTI's ass in every way that matters.

How's Elan's IP/IR/232 Driver Database? What's the communication protocol for the handheld remotes? How customizable are the screens on the handhelds, TP's, and mobile devices?