I'm with you on your 2nd paragraph. I've gotten much better at NOT wasting time compared to my early years. These days, I'm all about the paid consultation and general price quoting so there is no sticker shock.

"Sir, most basic surround sound rooms are $7K-$20K"
"Sir, most rooms of audio are around $1500.00/room"
"Sir, a decent WiFi network starts at about $2K"
"Sir, we have paid consultations because reasons 1,2,3"

Even worse, our doors (TVs) have gone way down in price for what the customer gets, but installation does not cost ANY less than before. If my experiences with DVRs that merge analog and IP cameras are any example, installation can cost way MORE than it used to.


Bingo. Offer it with a nice attitude, too.

For those that do charge for consults and designing/bidding a system, what are your fees?  My market is so competitive that I've found it difficult to implement.  With the travel that is required for most of these job (30-40 miles each way), I cannot keep going out for tire kickers.  Would love some input on how you bring up these fees, what you charge, and how you combat the pushback from people that question it (other than simply saying no thank you)

Wasn't this the goal of Cedia? They were going to promote our industry and educate our customers. If you were a Cedia installer you'd have a huge leg up, what a joke.

I still have a hat and patch for a shirt. Never been asked about CEDIA, EVER.

What do you reckon they did with all of the money they charged for whatever it is that they do?

I struggle with this at times as well. I've used design fees before and have also not used them. My fee for a full design is all based on how long it takes me to put together the SOW for the project. If accepted, the design fee goes against the overall project cost.

I've also just sent general quotes without design fees, for smaller projects. By general, I mean like, 65" HDTV, Audio/Video Receiver, In-ceiling speakers, etc. If they ask why there are no manufacturer or model numbers, I gladly tell them my fee and can provide a shopping list to them.

I've been burned way too many times, by even some of my best clients, when I've provided a full detailed quote for nothing. They take it and send my quote directly to my competitors to beat it. I've seen the emails.

It’s all about sticking to a business process that works for you. Free initial meeting so I can show my portfolio and sell my services. System design is a service that gets paid for. I charge a flat fee based on the scope of the job. Add in enough time for the design as well as time and travel for the second meeting to go over the design. Any changes to the initial design are done on an hourly basis.

The key to this is qualifying the client over the phone. Explain that the first meeting is to show them what is possible, help them pick the type of systems they want, come up with a working budget, sign a system design agreement, AND collect a check for the design. Also explain the range of pricing of the systems you do, “we have done simple one room systems for as little as X and large whole house systems for as much as Y”. Many people will disqualify themselves based on one of those two things, that’s good. They are either saying I don’t have the money to spend for even your most basic system or they are saying they are unwilling to pay for your time and expertise. Neither of those is a client anyway so you haven’t wasted much time.

Every market is competitive, it’s up to you to decide if you want to compete on price or quality. There will always be someone cheaper and a client looking for that, let them have each other. Work for people who want quality and are willing to pay for it.

Cedia cert. means nothing to anyone I've talked to about it (...And I possess a Cedia certification).

As for the uninformed clients in my area I blame electricians. They overhear the numbers during a site visit or the clients assume electricians know the most about cabling, show them the quote and it gets laughed at. I run into a lot of jobs where sparky takes over the cabling and daisy chains everything. I have no problem charging people to fix the cabling after the electrician does his job. Later I have a laugh because they paid the electrician for their job, and then they pay me what was in the original quote.

For other prices the homeowners throw my way, I blame Geek Squad.

JUST left a new house - with a 5.1 pre-wired dedicated media room.
he has a 70" TV to install for video and I asked him what he was considering for budget for the sound system.
and I quote
"looking on Amazon and Best Buy - nice systems run about $250."
that is NOT a typo

I'm getting some notes of Geek Squad in this statement. They're evil I tell you!

Great thread!

Oddly enough, after thinking this through, it makes a strong case for maintaining low overhead in your business. That allows you to be selective about the jobs you take - IOW, you can filter out the customers who are price comparing with Amazon, etc... If they're murdering your product margins, they're probably going to cry about your labor costs as well.

And let's be honest here - you can get a *lot* done for short money nowadays. When 3-packs of Ubiquity access points are less than $200 with free 2-day shipping, it's hard to explain to a customer why your Araknis APs are (whatever they are now...not gonna list prices). TV mounts are like 20 bucks. Sonos - our *cheap* go-to for distributed audio STILL shocks some people with the price! I don't want to try and sell something to those people, because they don't really want it.

The free estimate thing can be a huge time and money drain.

One way to stop it is to charge a consulting fee instead of giving away your time.

Another way is to only schedule the estimate visit, and only do it when you're in the neighborhood.


Covering a large area, as I am doing, the cost of fuel (was topping $600.00 a month at one time) alone was reason enough to implement fees to cover the cost. Plus there's the lost revenue giving the estimate, when you could be working on a job and actually making money.

If someone objects to paying $50.00 to $100.00 for an estimate, they're not serious anyway. They just want to pick your brain and get free advice, or instructions.

Like $3000? Thermostat, door bell-cam, door locks, smoke detector, voice control...apps and more apps and those light bulbs that are also bluetooth speakers.

BOOM! SMART HOUSE!

Long time ago, a 42" Pioneer PDP ran 21k, and a Chief PDR mount could run $700.00.


Now a 42" can run all of $200.00 to $300.00 (no name crap) and that Chief mount still runs $700.00.


Add in the labor, and people look at you like you're out of your freaking mind.

I had a plumber quote a replacement for a water heater - the LABOR was about $850 - for about 2 hours of labor. the next guy was about the same. I guess i really NEED Hot Water.?