Hello All,

This could/should probably be on IP, but whatever. I'm not looking for industry secrets.

My question is how much do you guys bill for project management? Is it a line item on a bid, based on percentage? Or is it billed later based on extra trips or meetings on the job site? (that are outside of the original scope of work)

The last couple remodels I have worked on have turned into slow train wrecks at the end of the job. Normally, when I bid the job up front, I would price X TV installations, X speakers, X hours of labor, add it all up, bam there's the price.

The problem(s) comes up at (sometimes at prewire) the end of the job. I go out to plan on 6 hours of labor for a day(let's say), but now there's Comcast issues, or bad wiring in an MDU, or miscommunication between designer and home owner. Now, I have to come back 2 more times to make sure someone else did their job just so I can do mine (and get my completion check)

I know this time should be billed, but where, when, and how... (dollars or percentage of bid?) Usually, I flat bid larger projects up front and have a asterisk on things that might be an issue, so that the client and I are on the same page.

Thanks!
Tom

Re. the Comcast, or bad wiring issues : You could state an allowance in your proposal for 3 hours of liaison and attendance with Comcast, anything extra over changed at $x per hour pro rata.

Similarly for the wiring issues (not sure if your using the electrician to run the data, av and speaker cables or not) but if you give them a spec, eg. speaker cables not to run parallel with power for more than x distance unless x metres away, speaker cables to cross power at 90 degrees, av equipment to be on own ring main etc..

If they then dont follow your design spec, you can point this out and get them to move it at their own cost.

For larger projects I just give one flat line item labor rate and a 2-4 page scope of work indicating how the system will perform. So long as they don't add any capabilities, the flat rate labor stays the same, I take responsibility for everything along the way.

The key is knowing how long labor and install will take, but then adding at least 2-3 full days for bs. If you're afraid of losing it on price, then you either just gotta take the bs on the chin or be very specific upfront about what might cost extra.

I've gotten better at this and just include project management as a separate line item with a paragraph on what it covers.  Most of my jobs have $3-$10k for project management and it's never been questioned.

I just set the amount based on experience, not on percentage.  Some projects, builders, designers or clients are more labor intensive for meetings, etc. so you just have to ask enough questions up front to gauge what's going to be involved.

Something else that's been more common over the last 3-5 years is becoming involved with the architect, designer, lighting designer, client, etc. long before a job even starts (or had been bid).  I'm finding myself going to planning meetings (and lots of them) for jobs that won't even start for another year or more.

For these meetings, I charge by the hour just like everyone else that's sitting around the same table and submit invoices monthly.

We've started charging full rate for these meetings as well. Kinda crazy meeting on a job that won't even be breaking ground for 12-16 months. Sometimes I think the architects/decorators like these meetings because maybe they getting out of other mundane office work or they just like to schmooze.

I would be very surprised if they aren't billing for those meetings, as well.

IMO line items are tricky. Like I have many clients refuse to pay travel time. But when I say your charged for when the guys start at shop till when they get back to the shop clients don’t have a problem with it. But it is really charging them travel time but it’s not called travel time.

On smaller projects guesstimate labor for dealing with things like Comcast/DirecTV or a cabinet maker etc. Anything that gets in your way and costs you money.

On larger projects sell blocks of time like "20 hours of project management". Keep track of your time. When you go over sell another block. Refund any unused hours.