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What do you charge for working long distance (traveling, lodging, etc.)
This thread has 17 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Monday April 9, 2018 at 14:47
PSS
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I have two clients that have asked if I'd work out of state. I've never worked "long distance" so not sure how to charge and what "issues" to expect (during prewire, finish, etc. and long term).
My main questions that come to mind:
What to charge for travel time (half normal rate or full....)
Air fare, lodging and meals, a daily rate or just reimbursement?
Do I possibly "hire" the electrician OR his "helpers" to wire the place and watch them? I can't really see sending my prewire tools (Hole Hog, bits, etc....) across the country but maybe you guys have ideas about this.
For those with experience in this situation let me know the pros and cons and what situations you've come across when doing this AND was it worth it.
Post 2 made on Monday April 9, 2018 at 14:55
SB Smarthomes
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I don't travel, but first thing that comes to mind is to check and see if there is any state or local licensing that's required to do the work.  If so, this could impact your ability to do the work, or might force you to use local tradesmen to perform the work for you.

You'll also need resources in place to service and support the systems after installation.
www.sbsmarthomes.com
Santa Barbara Smarthomes
Post 3 made on Monday April 9, 2018 at 15:36
buzz
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I haven't done this in many years, but I had the prewire done to my specification (this was not an elaborate system), I shipped the equipment, and flew out to do the final install and setup. I stayed in a room at the house and the customer provided meals. Obviously, we were on good terms. My guy (down to earth, self made) was a golfer, the house was at the seventh green of a well known course, and a world class pro had a house across the street. It was his dream come true. One night we went for a tour of the area and dinner at the clubhouse (custom diet for my customer) to "show me how the rich people lived". Other meals were takeout because the kitchen wasn't fully functional yet.
Post 4 made on Monday April 9, 2018 at 15:48
cma
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I charge full rate for my travel time, charge the gov per diem rate for the location then charge reimbursement all other travel costs, flight, hotel, rental car.

For pre-wires (if outside of a reasonable driving distance) I usually work with the electrician on the job and direct them on what and how things need to be done.
Post 5 made on Monday April 9, 2018 at 18:56
highfigh
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On April 9, 2018 at 14:47, PSS said...
I have two clients that have asked if I'd work out of state. I've never worked "long distance" so not sure how to charge and what "issues" to expect (during prewire, finish, etc. and long term).
My main questions that come to mind:
What to charge for travel time (half normal rate or full....)
Air fare, lodging and meals, a daily rate or just reimbursement?
Do I possibly "hire" the electrician OR his "helpers" to wire the place and watch them? I can't really see sending my prewire tools (Hole Hog, bits, etc....) across the country but maybe you guys have ideas about this.
For those with experience in this situation let me know the pros and cons and what situations you've come across when doing this AND was it worth it.

Rent heavy tools at Home Depot, take what you can and let someone else do whatever they can so you can supervise.

I did a job three hours away and won't do it the same way again. The electrician didn't give me what I had asked for because he A) didn't seem to want to, B) didn't understand why I wanted it and C) doesn't understand (or want to) low voltage. They also used MY hole and pull cord for the Romex they pulled up to the Kitchen and I let them know why I was pissed.

Paid travel- they pay for all expenses, you work out the rate but if you can't be working at the regular rate, anything less is causing you to lose money. Work out a per diem for incidentals and meals, too.

Make sure you don't need to be licensed and look into your insurance coverage in this kind of case. If you're not covered, it may be better to pass on doing it and find someone for them, like I did for someone in PHX.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 6 made on Monday April 9, 2018 at 21:19
Ernie Gilman
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I've done this in two cases with the same client: installing a home theater in a mostly finished basement (Virginia, so no the kind of "basements" I'd seen at home in California) and overseas with the same client.

In each case I was working for a friend's company. All travel expenses were paid and a daily rate figured out. The client provided a hotel room and transportation.
I worked long days to get the thing done. The client's electrician had a reputation of never working past 4 PM until I got there and showed him I was willing to exceed a normal day's labor to get the job done. He came up to the mark and did things right. All of this resulted in at least a day less overall labor, but a nice tip for me.

This was preceded by my shipping all those tools I had that I thought would be needed for the job, so there would be less need to shop when on site. That time was paid as part of the labor. Those tools were shipped in advance. The client paid for the few additional tools I thought I might need, and I kept those after the job.

The other experience with the same client was in Saudi Arabia and expanded to work on two different theaters. Pretty much the same circumstances held, except in much bigger numbers. Oh, and we insisted on prepayment of labor used to organize things and for the planned trips over there.

It definitely has to be worth your while. There's no point taking yourself out of your locality, where small bits of work that you can fit into a schedule can fill the occasional empty day.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 7 made on Monday April 9, 2018 at 23:36
Fins
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How far are you talking?
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 8 made on Tuesday April 10, 2018 at 00:26
Ernie Gilman
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Fins,
It would surely be helpful to give your views on trips of much less than a day (that three hours of driving sure would force SOME kind of out-of-the-ordinary billing situation!), then trips of a full day, then longer.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 9 made on Tuesday April 10, 2018 at 00:55
SV650S
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I have traveled for work quite a. It. I have driven from Seattle to the Denver area and to the Bay area for large jobs. I have also done a,number in Idaho I have flown to Chicago and Palm Springs
Driving is nice because you have all of your tools and can bring what you need. Be sure to bring extra supplies,so you don't have to make a 4 hour drive because your punch down tool fell onto the concrete and broke the blade . If you fly make sure to find local suppliers before you need them. Find out if you need any business information to make purchases and their hours and location. Ship in what you can. Do not expect the local Ace to have what you need. If there are no,local suppliers talk to your regular house and let them know you are working remotely and may need things overnighted. Give them the address ahead of time to ease shipping. Find out if UPS delivers daily. Some areas they don't.
Make sure to give yourself plenty of time. You will,work late nights and lots of hours. Find the food places that are open late. Watch alcohol intake. You need to be on your game because time is limited.
The customer pays travel and hotel cost and a $75 per day per diem. It goes quickly when you are in an expensive ski town.
As others have said make sure you can legally work there. Check the state and municipality for license requirements.
Post 10 made on Tuesday April 10, 2018 at 09:21
sirroundsound
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I have done a few projects that required getting on a plane or driving more than a few hours to get to the job site.
Having someone local can be a big benefit.

One of my first out of town projects was across the country.
We were given drawings, which we marked up for screens, projector, wire and power etc.
As it was commercial, the GC ran pipe to locations and it was up to us to pull our own wire and deal with the rest. We asked that there be tall ladders available to us as these would be expensive to try to bring with us.
We staged the system and programmed in house (AMX), boxed it all up and shipped. Found local distribution for wire so we could buy and take to site when we arrived.
Myself and 1 tech, flight, hotels, car rental and meals paid for plus a daily rate that was higher than our normal rate as we knew we would be working late to complete within the few days we allocated.
The key is to charge a daily rate that is worth your while, and figure out a per diem that does not require you to eat 3 meals a day at McD's.
Be organized and whatever time you think it should take to do the work, at a minimum double it. You will get there and have to meet with people who could take 1/2 a day just talking to you before you get any work done. You could face traffic delays you are not used to and getting from your hotel to site could take up an hour each way you had not accounted for. Tons of things we encounter on jobs that burn time can and will happen.
Test equipment before you send it (and add this time to the bill). Get programming (or most of it) done before you leave.
If you have a rack going to site, and you have another at the shop, layout the equpment and pre make and label your cables if you can, anything that can save time on site will be helpfull.
Post 11 made on Tuesday April 10, 2018 at 11:36
Fins
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On April 10, 2018 at 00:26, Ernie Gilman said...
Fins,
It would surely be helpful to give your views on trips of much less than a day (that three hours of driving sure would force SOME kind of out-of-the-ordinary billing situation!), then trips of a full day, then longer.

Ernie, for someone that is usually way too analytical, sometimes your simplicity in and thinking amazes me. Distance, travel time, and method of travel are all factors into how to potentially address this situation. I have projects that range from 4 to 9 hours by road, projects in Miami that are a 2 hour commercial flight and require a rental car, and last week I was gone to the gulf coast on a trip that would have taken about 10 hours to drive, but was an hour and a half by the client’s Eclipse 550.

For the most part, travel and expenses were negotiated uniquely in each case because the circumstances were unique.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

OP | Post 12 made on Wednesday April 11, 2018 at 00:17
PSS
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On April 9, 2018 at 23:36, Fins said...
How far are you talking?

One job is South Lake Tahoe, approx. 8-9 hours drive

Other job is in Charlotte N.C., not driving there!!
Post 13 made on Sunday April 15, 2018 at 10:43
Anthony
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it depends what we are talking about.

a 2-3h drive for a 2h job we charge for a full days work.

like Buzz our clients tend to be "OK" with us staying at their place (saves them money after all) so they tend to become "workations" i.e a 3 day job would be charged like normal * but extended over 5 days with a bit of fun thrown in.

If the distance is big (like the 9 h drive you mention) you are better off finding top notch locale help that is ready to let you be the driver and for you to be the supervisor (with pitching in on stuff you are allowed to). Then spend time with the guy at the local company getting him up to speed on what will be happening. The client that hired us to do his house here and then decided he wanted us to take care of his place in the Alps a couple of months ago did not do so because it would be impossible to find someone in Switzerland to do the job, he picked us to do that job for two reason a) we are a known entity to him b) it does not matter if he is at home, his cottage or Switzerland it will all work the same for him and he won't need to brake his head when there because the interfaces are all different with a local flair.

Last edited by Anthony on April 15, 2018 11:57.
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Post 14 made on Sunday April 15, 2018 at 11:56
Anthony
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* PS when I said "charged like normal" that is for time and food, if there are added expenses (i.e. a plane ticket) the customer will obviously pay for that

Last edited by Anthony on April 15, 2018 12:16.
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Post 15 made on Sunday April 15, 2018 at 13:01
Mac Burks (39)
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Partner with the electrician. Sell the wire and documentation and the electrician charges the client for the additional labor. Now you don't have to worry about code and inspectors because the electricians are licensed. Periodically check their work before drywall goes up. At the start in the middle and before drywall goes up is usually enough.

Drive there if you can so you can bring all your gear. If you have to fly bring your hand tools on the plane. Drop ship parts and products. Buy a 6' ladder, folding table and chairs, cheap printer. Borrow everything else or rent from hardware stores.

Per diem for each of your employees plus travel lodging and rental car or fuel and a flat daily fee to have your van there. Otherwise charge your normal rates. You want to make sure any additional costs caused by traveling are passed directly to the client.

Finally...the most important thing...how will you service this system? Rack PC TeamViewer remote monitoring software and products will allow you to solve 95% of the problems. The other 5% that requires someone on site will be the hard part. If the client has a staff you can usually FaceTime with them to handle troubleshooting. If there isn't a staff then look for local companies that will sell a service contract or let you pay them for each incident.

We have projects everywhere. We have all sorts of arrangements with other companies to keep our clients happy. We handle most issues remotely within an hour of receiving a support call. Other projects have local firms working with them for support and even upgrades.
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