I take this back. Completely. The a**holes who "documented" this product did a horrible job. The documents I've now seen are appropriate for reminding someone of the details if they already know this product in and out.

Look at this that I found after perusing six different Bosch documents:

Well, that's nice. Kudos to buzz. The fact that this information is not in the installation documents is cursable. The document's name doesn't help, either. See [Link: resource.boschsecurity.us].

Call these emmeffers and ask them how this should be wired into a sensor that's looking for a simple damn dry contact.

Better yet, they're irritating me so much that I'll ask you why the hell you're using this exact product. Why the hell are you using this exact product? Isn't there a product that has been used for years by cheap-ass alarm companies, that is used by them because they work, that you can buy at ADI for sixteen bucks, that has a friggin' RELAY dry contact?

Yes, worked like a champ. EVERY time.

Is just what we had and have used many times on security panels.

And THANK YOU for realizing it was not my lack of due diligence nor reading the fugged up manual. Glad you say that manual as a joke as well.

The correct answer here is USE ANOTHER PIR SENSOR. One of my fellow TC guys grabbed a PIR, set it up, tested it and it worked. As this one SHOULD. THIS particular PIR simply does not.

Well, after looking at two installation manuals that lacked specifications, and seeing no specification document (at least not named as such), I was pissed and totally understood your position.

I'll call you out, or a manufacturer, or myself when I see crap happen like this. There's no good reason to hold back, since we all, presumably, want things to be better.


Aren't ya glad you didn't take on the science project that would be figuring out how to make it work? ("Science Project" = thinking it should work, you embark on a journey with no idea how far you'll have to go, how much it will cost, how long it will take, or even if you'll ever figure it out. This is closely related to "Art Project," which is along the same lines but has to do with coming up with a spiffy installation solution. Many Art Projects can be seen by searching for "there, I fixed it.")

LOL. All true Ernie!

I take on my share of science projects. If I know five sure fire ways of solving a problem, I am likely to try number six. Yes, this might seem to waste some time, but at a point in the future I'll face a similar issue and have a rich set of solutions at hand. In my opinion one learns more from a failure than an accidental success. Contrast this to the person who never fails (or avoids situations where failure is a possibility). I claim that this person is likely to have a smaller range of problem solving capability.

Even though I was not on the hot seat for this discussion, I learned to be on the lookout for solid state switches. My prior assumption was that alarm manufacturers would not use them in this application. Or that URC would be a little more forgiving with their detection levels.

buzz, you and I are kindred souls in this regard. I believe we should always know WAY MORE than just what it required to solve the particular problem of the moment. If all you know is what steps to follow to do a particular kind of installation, you won't be able to invent creative solutions to the bizarre problems we run into.

The classic case of this as regards real problems people have had here is when a CAT5 has been run where a speaker wire is needed, and it's impossible to run a different wire. If you know that two 24 ga wires in parallel are roughly equivalent to a 21 ga wire, and all four in parallel are roughly equivalent to an 18 ga wire, then you may have a solution for your speaker wire, if a short length of CAT can be used where you HAD to have at least an 18 ga wire.

highfigh has commented on this, saying of course all of us here know this about wire gauges, but the installers I've run into often don't think of all these details and would not be able to think their way out of this problem.

Taking on the occasional Science Project is worthwhile because it opens up your thinking and increases your ability to solve a problem. I LOVED IT when I was on salary at Rogersound, in charge of all engineering things, and the owner wanted to know why some particular thing happened. I could take the time to figure it out. It was great. I don't have the time for that now. I've got to make it work and move on.

While I enjoy a good science project and piddle quite a bit on my own system, I just wanted this problem to go away and fast. It should not reflect on ones ability this one desire to move on.

The solution for me on this job it to use a LC-100-PI pir motion sensor that another dealer tested and knows it works. Works for me! (well, i hope lol) I'll save my science projects for projects i WANT to do! LOL.

Should this not work for me, then then obviously something else is going on and then it might turn into a science project whether I want it or not.

Thanks for ALL the input!