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Topic:
low voltage recessed lights
This thread has 18 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Saturday March 10, 2018 at 22:51
3PedalMINI
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My google searching chi isn't working right tonight. I need a low voltage high lumen 2700k recessed light that cannot exceed 2.75" deep. I Need 6 of them. They should also be dimmable.

Does anything exist?
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
Post 2 made on Sunday March 11, 2018 at 12:10
edizzle
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Rimikon?
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Post 3 made on Monday March 12, 2018 at 10:11
drewski300
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Why not 120 volts? [Link: amazon.com]

I'm sure you could remotely locate the xfmer but you would have to do the load calc to determine what is required. It comes with a xfmer but I doubt it could supply 6 lights.

I like the light output of these and the 3000k looks very neutral. Cheap enough to order to test. They dim well.
"Just when I thought you couldn't possibly be any dumber, you go and do something like this... and totally redeem yourself!"
Post 4 made on Monday March 12, 2018 at 11:22
SWOInstaller
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On March 10, 2018 at 22:51, 3PedalMINI said...
My google searching chi isn't working right tonight. I need a low voltage high lumen 2700k recessed light that cannot exceed 2.75" deep. I Need 6 of them. They should also be dimmable.

Does anything exist?

What's diameter do you require?
these ones [Link: hafele.ca] are 2-9/16" and come in 3000k

Alternatively there are 120V recessed lights that are available in an abundance of diameters https://www.lotusledlights.com/ or [Link: liteline.com]
You can't fix stupid
Post 5 made on Monday March 12, 2018 at 11:50
Ernie Gilman
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On March 12, 2018 at 10:11, drewski300 said...
Why not 120 volts? [Link: amazon.com]

So far, the best looking control scenario I've seen was in a theater we did that used 12V LEDs for all lighting. It was "best" in terms of dimming. It might have been worst in terms of what it took to make it happen, though!

Not far from each group of lights ("group" meaning a particular amount of current draw at full ON) there is a 120V to 12V transformer, a full wave bridge rectifier, and a capacitor. The cap's value is in the tens of thousands of microfarads. These parts were chosen to pass enough current so that there never was flickering, without storing so much power as to slow dimming.

Those transformers are fed from a Lutron magnetic dimmer.
The magnetic dimmer is controlled by a DMX 0 - 10 volt DC controller.
The DMX is controlled by the Crestron system that runs the entire theater.
If I remember correctly, we have about 400 watts of LED ceiling light fixtures lighting the room from the ceiling.

You know that LED dimming is problematic near 0% light output, and this system is better than most in that regard. The lighitng and Crestron guys messed with the curve of the DMX output and were able to smooth the LED dimming near zero pretty well, but you still can see the last three or four steps before it hits zero.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 6 made on Monday March 12, 2018 at 19:22
edizzle
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you mean what what you think is 0%
I love supporting product that supports me!
Post 7 made on Tuesday March 13, 2018 at 14:25
Ernie Gilman
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On March 12, 2018 at 19:22, edizzle said...
you mean what what you think is 0%

You say no small thing! The following is more than you want to know but if you've ever measured current and voltage of LEDs when they're running, it hints at why a five watt LED doesn't draw five watts, and other things that don't make sense.

You have to apply a certain amount of voltage, somewhere around 2 volts, for an LED to light up at all. 12V LEDs are typically three LEDs in series, so you might be presenting even 6 volts to the LEDs, but they won't be on. If full power is 12 volts, then this math would result in zero percent light with just under 50% voltage!

But wait, there's more!

If full power is 12 volts because you have a 120 to 12 volt transformer, then actual full power is NOT 12 volts DC. 12 volts AC is reduced by two diode drops (typically 0.7V each) to pulsating DC. But... Every diagram I can find shows two half waveforms that meet at zero volts, even though the diodes (almost completely) don't conduct when voltage lower than 0.7 is applied to them. A time period of no conduction minuscule conduction should be shown between half pulses!

Now, this waveform with the (nearly) blank space between the bumps will have a peak voltage of the square root of two, times 12 volts, minus two diode drops, or... about 15.3 V.

If that voltage is fed to a capacitor and no current is drawn, the actual voltage will be higher than 15.3, since tiny amounts of current will flow through the diodes even below 0.7 volts across them. I've seen 16 volts under those conditions.

As soon as you draw current, though, the DC value lowers. You'll get clean DC until you draw so much that the capacitors cannot keep the voltage between pulse peaks up to about 12 volts. From that point on down, the load will make flicker possible.

So, yeah, zero percent isn't necessarily zero percent. And 12 volts isn't twelve volts. Et cetera.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 8 made on Tuesday March 13, 2018 at 14:30
Duct Tape
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the Lutron low voltage lights I saw at CEDIA were very impressive.  I can't recall the percentage they dim down to exactly, but I think it was something like .5%
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Post 9 made on Tuesday March 13, 2018 at 14:56
SB Smarthomes
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Lutron has 1% and .01% drivers...
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Post 10 made on Tuesday March 13, 2018 at 17:47
edizzle
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Lutron luminaries and drivers are some of the finest made
I love supporting product that supports me!
Post 11 made on Saturday March 24, 2018 at 01:27
davidcasemore
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On March 10, 2018 at 22:51, 3PedalMINI said...
My google searching chi isn't working right tonight. I need a low voltage high lumen 2700k recessed light that cannot exceed 2.75" deep. I Need 6 of them. They should also be dimmable.

Does anything exist?

[Link: apure-system.com]
Fins: Still Slamming' His Trunk on pilgrim's Small Weenie - One Trunk at a Time!
Post 12 made on Saturday March 24, 2018 at 12:52
Ernie Gilman
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On March 10, 2018 at 22:51, 3PedalMINI said...
My google searching chi isn't working right tonight. I need a low voltage high lumen 2700k recessed light that cannot exceed 2.75" deep. I Need 6 of them. They should also be dimmable.

You'll also want to buy them from a supplier who will carry this model of lamp in two years. Otherwise, when something happens to one of them, you'll have to buy a whole new set so they'll look right.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 13 made on Wednesday March 28, 2018 at 11:00
KeithDBrown
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I have used WAC "LED90" puck lights, which come with a recessed trim kit. Not sure what size you are looking for, but the looked great and dimmed fairly well. Only 200 lumens, but 90 CRI and 2700K @ $60/ea.
Post 14 made on Wednesday March 28, 2018 at 11:58
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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Is 2700K really the way to go? They always look to me like 40 watt incandescents: there's light, but it's not really as bright as you want, so it's the wrong color. I prefer WHITE all the way down to zero. Is it just me?
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 15 made on Wednesday March 28, 2018 at 13:43
77W
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On March 12, 2018 at 11:22, SWOInstaller said...
What's diameter do you require?
these ones [Link: hafele.ca] are 2-9/16" and come in 3000k

Alternatively there are 120V recessed lights that are available in an abundance of diameters https://www.lotusledlights.com/ or [Link: liteline.com]

Where do you buy your Hafele?
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