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Topic:
Another major Sonos revamp coming soon? I'm scared.
This thread has 33 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
Post 16 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 15:07
goldenzrule
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On January 17, 2018 at 13:53, highfigh said...
Old news? The URC e-mail was sent out yesterday.

Only in terms of URC reaching out. It has been known for a while and Sonos sent this out a week and a half ago:



Unsupported UPnP Sonos Integrations
At the end of January, we have a regular Sonos software update to bring new features (like Sonos App enhancements based on feedback) and to implement minor bug fixes. This update also includes small changes that continue to keep the Sonos system secure for our customers. Inadvertently this update will impact experiences built using unsupported UPnP integrations, more specifically the ability to search and play music from streaming services.

We understand that this change will impact your existing or in progress jobs, and ultimately the experience our shared customers using an unsupported integration will have with how their music will integrate with their home control system. We’re proactively communicating this update with you in hopes to help impacted customers prior to the release.

Preventing scenarios like these are a key driver for us to create a scalable and sustainable Sonos platform (Endorsed and Certified partners) where we can work closely with partners to build secure experiences for customers using Sonos APIs. Integrations built on our platform are tested to ensure long-term reliability, which is not currently possible with unsupported UPnP integrations. The result is that you and your customers can have confidence that the integrations they choose to use with Sonos will continue to deliver the best and most reliable experience.

The Specifics:

If you are a Control4 dealer and are still using the unsupported legacy UPnP driver, you should now move customers over to the endorsed driver. Control4 will also be communicating this news with all of their dealers today as well.
This update will not impact any endorsed or certified partner experiences built on the Sonos platform, which are offered by Control4 with their endorsed driver, Crestron, iPort, Lutron, Savant Wink, and more.
All customer’s Sonos speakers and systems will continue to work and can be controlled using the Sonos App, voice, or the desktop controller.
Up until the introduction of the Endorsed Partner Program in 2016, any third-party Sonos integration was always unsupported by us. We hope you understand why the only way to integrate Sonos is by working with those third-party partners that are on the Sonos platform. We’ll continue to update you as additional partners come to the platform, including some of the larger partners in the home automation space that are already building new experiences to be available to you and your customers.

We appreciate your partnership in ensuring our shared customers have the best experience. Please reach out to your Sonos Account Manager or [email protected] with any questions.

Sincerely,
Your Sonos Team
Post 17 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 15:34
highfigh
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On January 17, 2018 at 15:07, goldenzrule said...
Only in terms of URC reaching out. It has been known for a while and Sonos sent this out a week and a half ago:

I guess I shouldn't expect ADI to send info to dealers who buy through them or those of us who wasted so much time doing the BS tests with Savant/Sonos before HAUS closed.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 18 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 16:30
imt
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Round 1 of Sonos integration was open to certain partners and URC is part of round 2, which is now.

However, I do not understand why URC isn't a little more forthcoming in the email. I get what will happen if a customer does the next Sonos upgrade and how that will affect the ability to browse music sources under the current module. However, they then say that the new 2 way module will loose that ability as well, since its not part of Sonos's certification protocols. This will affect all automation control systems. So what I want to know upfront is what can one expect in the new module. What can/can't be controlled. I assume that there should be a doc somewhere outlining what any certified product could control under Sonos Certification.

On January 17, 2018 at 13:22, Audiophiliac said...


When I sell any kind of platform for streaming services now, I disclaim that there is always the chance of change on the part of the content providers, the hardware manufacturers, and the control system manufacturers. Nothing is forever, especially with the pace of "advancement" in technology. In the end, it is about $$ of course. Spotify wants more subscribers. SONOS wants to move more boxes. URC, C4, Elan, want to move more boxes. Control4 went the route of managing the music services themselves. That was a good move for them. URC has done the same with the SNP. Elan sort of has an option with LMS and the Speakercraft and Niles boxes, but it is not an apple to apples comparison with SONOS IMHO.

With Sonos's move to allow certified 3d party control, it seems the content providers (Spotify, Pandora, etc) themselves are forcing you into using their direct App to have the full control experience. The Sonos app has more limited options (ala Pandora and I think Spotify as well). Sonos was king with content and control as well as the largest user base. If content providers have wrestled that away from the likes of Sonos whose to say that this functionality won't stop working in boxes provided by C4, URC, Autonomic, etc.
Post 19 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 16:56
chris-L5S
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On January 17, 2018 at 15:07, goldenzrule said...
The Specifics:

If you are a Control4 dealer and are still using the unsupported legacy UPnP driver, you should now move customers over to the endorsed driver. Control4 will also be communicating this news with all of their dealers today as well.
Reach out to your Sonos Account Manager or [email protected] with any questions.

I have a few customers using the old driver because the Endorsed driver sucked ass. so, now i am being forced to upgrade them and give them a suck ass driver as well. Hello customer, I need to upgrade your system and break it and oh, BTW, here is your bill. I love my job!
OP | Post 20 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 17:44
tweetymp4
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Got some insider info in the next app update coming soon. Sounds like they’re going to address our main complaints about the newest app changes. We’ll be seeing it very soon. Can’t speak for third party stuff b/c i know better than to integrate Sonos into anything other than lutron.
I'm Not an engineer, but I play one on TV.
My handle is Tweety but I have nothing to do with the organization of similar name. I just had a really big head as a child so folks called me tweety bird.
Post 21 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 19:43
Hasbeen
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I feel for you guys having to deal with the constant changes with Sonos and any number of different manufacturers.

However, it's clear that consumers love SONOS.  Here's some info for you...These are a couple of screenshots.. On my computer I have a keyword search tool.  I can see the amount of monthly searches for any keyword.  Here's SONOS compared to Denon Heos.   SONOS volume 246,000 monthly searches...Denon Heos 4,400. (SONOS gets more monthly searches than Amazon Alexa and Google Assistant.)

Technology is changing so fast, and now Sonos is finding themselves competing with Google & Amazon, so they're in a fight for survival too...so, they've gotta keep changing innovating....which means you're getting the blame for broken systems.

Maybe a great time to start having serious conversations with your clients about Maintenance Agreements?  This is going to be standard operating procedure for quite some time...gotta protect yourselves no?

Post 22 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 19:45
goldenzrule
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You're first point Paul is why I keep saying that I sell Sonos. It's usually a client that asks for it and I provide it. Easiest sale ever. The install is still easiest although it has gotten a little more complicated now that you have to setup with email address that must then be confirmed. Still easier than anything else I sell.
Post 23 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 22:27
Audiophiliac
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I would love to sell turntables and CD players again and tell my clients to get their a$$e$ down to the damn record store!
"When I eat, it is the food that is scared." - Ron Swanson
Post 24 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 23:23
FP Crazy
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On January 17, 2018 at 12:17, Trunk-Slammer -Supreme said...
Once again. F Sonos.....

So what steaming hardware do you sell regularly?

Ken, It's easy to say F Sonos, when you don't need to regularly provide a streaming hardware solution. But Russound is not a solution, and since I know you don't like Denon, Heos isn't in your stable of solutions.
Chasing Ernie's post count, one useless post at a time.
Post 25 made on Thursday January 18, 2018 at 01:29
buzz
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On January 17, 2018 at 19:43, Hasbeen said...
Maybe a great time to start having serious conversations with your clients about Maintenance Agreements?

But, but an agreement will not help this situation. The customer will say that "my system used to work satisfactorily, now it does not. It's broken, fix it." Unfortunately, this will not be possible.

Apple is forcing developers to update their Apps or be de-listed from the App Store. I've also seen some nag messages when attempting to update non conforming App's. Some of the new features are not supported on older iDevices that can't run the latest versions of iOS.

In this case one could instruct all customers to refrain from updating their Sonos system and control Apps, but this is not a permanent solution because adding a new Sonos component will force an update as part of the process. Further, if a visiting relative updates Grandma's Sonos App in an attempt to help out, Grandma will be facing a new, unfamiliar UI.

Another example of an App that is somewhat broken is FING, a popular network analyzer. The current version of iOS will not return the MAC Address of a network client, previous iOS versions would report this. As a result, FING does not work as well as it had, because it cannot report MAC Addresses.
Post 26 made on Thursday January 18, 2018 at 07:45
ceied
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no worries for me, my shit still works regardless... and so does all my former clients...
Ed will be known as the Tiger Woods of the integration business, followed closely with the renaming of his company to "Hotties A/V". The tag line will be "We like big racks and tight holes"...
Post 27 made on Thursday January 18, 2018 at 07:49
goldenzrule
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On January 18, 2018 at 01:29, buzz said...
Another example of an App that is somewhat broken is FING, a popular network analyzer. The current version of iOS will not return the MAC Address of a network client, previous iOS versions would report this. As a result, FING does not work as well as it had, because it cannot report MAC Addresses.

Android user here. FING is not broken, works great.
Post 28 made on Thursday January 18, 2018 at 09:51
Ranger Home
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I'm so lucky I dont have customers ask for Sonos! They never have. Well, MAYBE one a year. They end with another solution, typically Total Control's streaming. Ive said this in other forums: Now that the dots can talk to each other, its even better. "Alexa turn on kitchen music". This turns on the DMS amp zone and changes the input to the "house" dot in the rack. "alexa play x on the house dot". Done. All remotes and in wall sync.

I have one customer that has had sonos for years. Of course, they too have been recently frustrated with Sonos lately. Now that the Alexa is set up with their URC DMS system, they never use sonos. Downside, no two way feed back, thus I still use the SNP-2 most of the time. THAT downside is the limited number of streaming services. Regardless, there are even easier user experiences than using Sonos.
Post 29 made on Thursday January 18, 2018 at 10:57
highfigh
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On January 18, 2018 at 09:51, Ranger Home said...
I'm so lucky I dont have customers ask for Sonos! They never have. Well, MAYBE one a year. They end with another solution, typically Total Control's streaming. Ive said this in other forums: Now that the dots can talk to each other, its even better. "Alexa turn on kitchen music". This turns on the DMS amp zone and changes the input to the "house" dot in the rack. "alexa play x on the house dot". Done. All remotes and in wall sync.

I have one customer that has had sonos for years. Of course, they too have been recently frustrated with Sonos lately. Now that the Alexa is set up with their URC DMS system, they never use sonos. Downside, no two way feed back, thus I still use the SNP-2 most of the time. THAT downside is the limited number of streaming services. Regardless, there are even easier user experiences than using Sonos.

Since I haven't used more than one Dot at a time, does that mean you could have an Echo in a kitchen for general use or someone who doesn't need to use the main audio system (with speakers in the kitchen) and saying "Alexa- play XXX" will play music only on that one, but saying "Alexa- play music in the kitchen" will cause another Dot in the rack to fire up the equipment that plays music in the Kitchen without turning on the other one, as long as both aren't named 'Kitchen'?
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 30 made on Thursday January 18, 2018 at 11:41
Ranger Home
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On January 18, 2018 at 10:57, highfigh said...
Since I haven't used more than one Dot at a time, does that mean you could have an Echo in a kitchen for general use or someone who doesn't need to use the main audio system (with speakers in the kitchen) and saying "Alexa- play XXX" will play music only on that one, but saying "Alexa- play music in the kitchen" will cause another Dot in the rack to fire up the equipment that plays music in the Kitchen without turning on the other one, as long as both aren't named 'Kitchen'?

That would be correct! You are basically commanding the kitchen dot to play music on another dot. Kitchen dot is named Kitchen, dot int the using audio out to distribution system is named house or whatever. You will need to tell kitchen dot, or any other dot, the command you need to turn on the speakers in that room. Then tell any dot to play x on house dot. The house dot in rack starts streaming music from the house dot to the amp. Fugg Sonos.

if you say play X in kitchen, it will play on the kitchen dot. If you tell the rack dot to play, it will play on whatever speakers you have on an attached amp.
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