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Another major Sonos revamp coming soon? I'm scared.
This thread has 33 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 12:00
tweetymp4
Select Member
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Got an email from URC this morning stating, in part:

"As you may have heard, Sonos plans to release a major update to their platform in order to make their system more scalable and sustainable. This update will limit the usability of the existing URC two-way module. The Sonos update is slated for release at the end of January 2018"

It goes on to say that third party modules etc. will loose the ability to browse music...

Anybody have any idea how big of a revamp this entails on the actual Sonos control app?

We don't have any sonos systems integrated into control systems (thankfully) but we are still dealing with the aftermath of the most recent app changes. I don't know if I can do it again.
I'm Not an engineer, but I play one on TV.
My handle is Tweety but I have nothing to do with the organization of similar name. I just had a really big head as a child so folks called me tweety bird.
Post 2 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 12:08
Fins
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All I know is Elan sent out a similar notice a couple weeks ago. Itís going to break everything.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 3 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 12:17
Trunk-Slammer -Supreme
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Once again. F Sonos.....
Post 4 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 12:33
Old Man River
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On January 17, 2018 at 12:17, Trunk-Slammer -Supreme said...
Once again. F Sonos.....

This x100

At this point, I honestly hate Sonos so much that I have to suppress urges of violence anytime someone says how great they think it is.
Lord loves a workin' man; don't trust whitey; see a doctor and get rid of it.
Post 5 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 12:38
jrainey
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On January 17, 2018 at 12:33, Old Man River said...
This x100

At this point, I honestly hate Sonos so much that I have to suppress urges of violence anytime someone says how great they think it is.

Suppress away....It is great....it just sucks at integration...we/you are pissed because it is a great stand alone product that is rock solid ....but just wont integrate....

We lived on borrowed time with the hacked drivers...now time to pay.
Post 6 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 12:47
Old Man River
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On January 17, 2018 at 12:38, jrainey said...
Suppress away....It is great....it just sucks at integration...we/you are pissed because it is a great stand alone product that is rock solid ....but just wont integrate....

We lived on borrowed time with the hacked drivers...now time to pay.

Exactly. If it would integrate, I'd love it. As it is, I will only sell/install it when specifically requested, and when absolutely nothing else goes into the project. I will say, though, I have not liked one single change to the UI since they abandoned the original, blue UI. THAT was the greatest multi room audio UI ever, and they changed it for no reason other than making a change. Now that I've had some time to play around with HEOS, I prefer their UI to the current Sonos UI. But that's a moot point, as I am putting most HEOS installs into an ELAN system, anyway
Lord loves a workin' man; don't trust whitey; see a doctor and get rid of it.
OP | Post 7 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 12:49
tweetymp4
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Back to the point, does anyone know how this will change the actual Sonos control app?

We've all Sonos bached plenty here... Just looking for info.
I'm Not an engineer, but I play one on TV.
My handle is Tweety but I have nothing to do with the organization of similar name. I just had a really big head as a child so folks called me tweety bird.
Post 8 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 13:00
highfigh
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On January 17, 2018 at 12:49, tweetymp4 said...
Back to the point, does anyone know how this will change the actual Sonos control app?

We've all Sonos bached plenty here... Just looking for info.

Nobody knows. Not sure Sonos knows, those corksoakin' sominambatches!

Dis is fargin' war!
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 9 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 13:22
Audiophiliac
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Haha! This is old news by now. The question I have is why it took so long for Elan and URC (and probably others) to finally decide to jump on board with the SONOS Endorsed API partner program and write an officially supported driver. Was it SONOS that pushed them back? Was it Elan and URC that thought they could keep re-engineering their drivers every time SONOS made a change?

jrainey said it. Regardless of the 3rd party integration limitations, which I still hope will expand at some point, it continues to be the most trouble free, content rich (find another product that has access to the range of music service availability that SONOS has), reliable, easy to configure, flexible to install, continuously updated and improved (that last one is subjective of course as there seem to be people who cannot figure out how to swipe up or down), music streamer on the market. Period. Our SONOS clients love it. Even the ones that are using a mix of 2 apps currently.

When I sell any kind of platform for streaming services now, I disclaim that there is always the chance of change on the part of the content providers, the hardware manufacturers, and the control system manufacturers. Nothing is forever, especially with the pace of "advancement" in technology. In the end, it is about $$ of course. Spotify wants more subscribers. SONOS wants to move more boxes. URC, C4, Elan, want to move more boxes. Control4 went the route of managing the music services themselves. That was a good move for them. URC has done the same with the SNP. Elan sort of has an option with LMS and the Speakercraft and Niles boxes, but it is not an apple to apples comparison with SONOS IMHO.

My biggest beef is that I do not want to have to tell my clients or potential clients that they have to pick from these handful of music streaming services because that is all my control system can handle. When they are deep into Spotify or Apple Music, or have uploaded their entire collection to Amazon Music, or Google, or whatever, now I have to try and tell them why the solution I want to sell them because I get [half ass] control of it from the control system interface, only supports services X, Y, and Z. I could sell you a SONOS that would do what you want, and has a superior user interface, and would likely be a much more enjoyable experience for you, buuuuuuut you might have to open another app on your phone once in a while to add a new favorite or playlist, etc. and you do not seem smart enough to handle that level of technical prowess (of course you would not say that part out loud, but it is implied by lots of comments I have read regarding this controversial topic). You would not sell someone a CD changer when all their albums are on vinyl. Selling someone who uses Apple Music a streaming device that does not support it is essentially the same thing.

All the other options, including HEOS, Fusion, Autonomic, LMS, seem to be polarizing in experiences and opinions by integrators here and on other forums. I have seen glowing reviews of product A alongside other CIs who claim 150% failure rate with the same product. That that is pretty much with any of the above mentioned products. I have not seen but a handful of hardware/firmware/support/warranty issues addressed about SONOS. It is a brilliantly engineered, well built, thoroughly tested, product that is very very good at what it does.

SONOS FTW. Take that Old Man River....go get violent now. :)
"When I eat, it is the food that is scared." - Ron Swanson
Post 10 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 13:26
Old Man River
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On January 17, 2018 at 13:22, Audiophiliac said...
Haha! This is old news by now. The question I have is why it took so long for Elan and URC (and probably others) to finally decide to jump on board with the SONOS Endorsed API partner program and write an officially supported driver. Was it SONOS that pushed them back? Was it Elan and URC that thought they could keep re-engineering their drivers every time SONOS made a change?

jrainey said it. Regardless of the 3rd party integration limitations, which I still hope will expand at some point, it continues to be the most trouble free, content rich (find another product that has access to the range of music service availability that SONOS has), reliable, easy to configure, flexible to install, continuously updated and improved (that last one is subjective of course as there seem to be people who cannot figure out how to swipe up or down), music streamer on the market. Period. Our SONOS clients love it. Even the ones that are using a mix of 2 apps currently.

When I sell any kind of platform for streaming services now, I disclaim that there is always the chance of change on the part of the content providers, the hardware manufacturers, and the control system manufacturers. Nothing is forever, especially with the pace of "advancement" in technology. In the end, it is about $$ of course. Spotify wants more subscribers. SONOS wants to move more boxes. URC, C4, Elan, want to move more boxes. Control4 went the route of managing the music services themselves. That was a good move for them. URC has done the same with the SNP. Elan sort of has an option with LMS and the Speakercraft and Niles boxes, but it is not an apple to apples comparison with SONOS IMHO.

My biggest beef is that I do not want to have to tell my clients or potential clients that they have to pick from these handful of music streaming services because that is all my control system can handle. When they are deep into Spotify or Apple Music, or have uploaded their entire collection to Amazon Music, or Google, or whatever, now I have to try and tell them why the solution I want to sell them because I get [half ass] control of it from the control system interface, only supports services X, Y, and Z. I could sell you a SONOS that would do what you want, and has a superior user interface, and would likely be a much more enjoyable experience for you, buuuuuuut you might have to open another app on your phone once in a while to add a new favorite or playlist, etc. and you do not seem smart enough to handle that level of technical prowess (of course you would not say that part out loud, but it is implied by lots of comments I have read regarding this controversial topic). You would not sell someone a CD changer when all their albums are on vinyl. Selling someone who uses Apple Music a streaming device that does not support it is essentially the same thing.

All the other options, including HEOS, Fusion, Autonomic, LMS, seem to be polarizing in experiences and opinions by integrators here and on other forums. I have seen glowing reviews of product A alongside other CIs who claim 150% failure rate with the same product. That that is pretty much with any of the above mentioned products. I have not seen but a handful of hardware/firmware/support/warranty issues addressed about SONOS. It is a brilliantly engineered, well built, thoroughly tested, product that is very very good at what it does.

SONOS FTW. Take that Old Man River....go get violent now. :)

Get off my lawn!
Lord loves a workin' man; don't trust whitey; see a doctor and get rid of it.
Post 11 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 13:41
jrainey
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411
On January 17, 2018 at 13:22, Audiophiliac said...
Haha! This is old news by now. The question I have is why it took so long for Elan and URC (and probably others) to finally decide to jump on board with the SONOS Endorsed API partner program and write an officially supported driver. Was it SONOS that pushed them back? Was it Elan and URC that thought they could keep re-engineering their drivers every time SONOS made a change?

jrainey said it. Regardless of the 3rd party integration limitations, which I still hope will expand at some point, it continues to be the most trouble free, content rich (find another product that has access to the range of music service availability that SONOS has), reliable, easy to configure, flexible to install, continuously updated and improved (that last one is subjective of course as there seem to be people who cannot figure out how to swipe up or down), music streamer on the market. Period. Our SONOS clients love it. Even the ones that are using a mix of 2 apps currently.

When I sell any kind of platform for streaming services now, I disclaim that there is always the chance of change on the part of the content providers, the hardware manufacturers, and the control system manufacturers. Nothing is forever, especially with the pace of "advancement" in technology. In the end, it is about $$ of course. Spotify wants more subscribers. SONOS wants to move more boxes. URC, C4, Elan, want to move more boxes. Control4 went the route of managing the music services themselves. That was a good move for them. URC has done the same with the SNP. Elan sort of has an option with LMS and the Speakercraft and Niles boxes, but it is not an apple to apples comparison with SONOS IMHO.

My biggest beef is that I do not want to have to tell my clients or potential clients that they have to pick from these handful of music streaming services because that is all my control system can handle. When they are deep into Spotify or Apple Music, or have uploaded their entire collection to Amazon Music, or Google, or whatever, now I have to try and tell them why the solution I want to sell them because I get [half ass] control of it from the control system interface, only supports services X, Y, and Z. I could sell you a SONOS that would do what you want, and has a superior user interface, and would likely be a much more enjoyable experience for you, buuuuuuut you might have to open another app on your phone once in a while to add a new favorite or playlist, etc. and you do not seem smart enough to handle that level of technical prowess (of course you would not say that part out loud, but it is implied by lots of comments I have read regarding this controversial topic). You would not sell someone a CD changer when all their albums are on vinyl. Selling someone who uses Apple Music a streaming device that does not support it is essentially the same thing.

All the other options, including HEOS, Fusion, Autonomic, LMS, seem to be polarizing in experiences and opinions by integrators here and on other forums. I have seen glowing reviews of product A alongside other CIs who claim 150% failure rate with the same product. That that is pretty much with any of the above mentioned products. I have not seen but a handful of hardware/firmware/support/warranty issues addressed about SONOS. It is a brilliantly engineered, well built, thoroughly tested, product that is very very good at what it does.

SONOS FTW. Take that Old Man River....go get violent now. :)

Our man FPCrazy has been "dual-apping" with Sonos and Elan for years....I think he had it right all along....the Sonos UI sucks compared to what it was but it is usable and the Apple Music and Amazon Music are becoming deal breakers with everything else out there
Post 12 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 13:53
highfigh
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Old news? The URC e-mail was sent out yesterday.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 13 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 14:11
Dean Roddey
Advanced Member
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953
One thing is that the UPnP API, though undocumented, was available to everyone who could figure it out. That has benefited them tremendously because Sonos is very widely supported now and a safe bet for most automation systems from Crestron down to open source. A lot of folks worked hard, without any help from Sonos, to help them move boxes.

But, if they start getting uppity and will only allow large companies to have access to this new API, they are going to have a lot of PO'd customers who are no longer going to be able to integrate their Sonos boxes.
Dean Roddey
Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems
www.charmedquark.com
Post 14 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 14:19
vwpower44
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On January 17, 2018 at 13:22, Audiophiliac said...
Haha! This is old news by now. The question I have is why it took so long for Elan and URC (and probably others) to finally decide to jump on board with the SONOS Endorsed API partner program and write an officially supported driver. Was it SONOS that pushed them back? Was it Elan and URC that thought they could keep re-engineering their drivers every time SONOS made a change?

Sonos currently uses UPNP. They are moving to JSON. This will make it lighter, easier to update, and have the ability to be in the cloud. This has been coming for a while. When Sonos announced their integration partners, they wanted everyone to make their drivers for UPNP, when everyone knew JSON was coming. URC and Elan I assume, decided to wait for JSON.
Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish...
Post 15 made on Wednesday January 17, 2018 at 14:38
dt3
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On January 17, 2018 at 12:08, Fins said...
All I know is Elan sent out a similar notice a couple weeks ago. Itís going to break everything.

Thats not completely true. It wont break EVERYTHING.

Favorite commands and basic play/pause commands will still work, its just browsing through music services that is going completely out the window.

I normally set my customers up with 6 favorite buttons that I can tie to any station, playlist, etc. Hit this button and it will start Fleetwood Mac Pandora, hit this button it will start your workout playlist. Want to play something outside that box start the system here then use your phone app to go in the service.

I personally love this method. Some of my customers do to. Others look at me like I have 3 heads and cant wrap their heads around the concept.
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