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Topic:
In-ceiling speaker and amp for louder Sonos system
This thread has 16 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Friday January 5, 2018 at 22:12
mrtristan
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My customer currently has three pairs of great rm/kitchen/dining in ceiling speakers running on a Sonos Connect amp and external Sherbourn amp (I think 75W/ch with speaker to line level adaptor) The paradigm speakers are quite small. Don't know the model right now but I think they are based on 5 inch drivers. There is a PSB SubSeries 200 Subwoofer complimenting the system. He says the system didn't play quite loud enough at his Christmas party and wants to upgrade. Last I heard is sounded pretty loud and clear but I have a feeling alcohol and screaming people muffles the sound a bit.

I suggested bigger speakers, Sonos Connect and a high current amp - one of those class D Crown amps for example. I like that you can filter the bass out on the channels and can drive 2 ohms comfortably.

Then I realized that amp doesn't have auto turn on. Ideally I want a decent amp with filtering and auto turn on. What would you recommend?

And what do you recommend for in-ceiling speakers that sound decent but are very efficient at the same time. My first thought was Klipsch. This is usually a character of Klipsch speakers but I've found they are not necessarily louder than others.

Last is there any way to force a Sonos connect or Connect amp to filter out the bass on it's output? I assume it would do this when a Sonos sub is added to the zone. Does it not? This would rule out the requirement for a filter built into an amp. Maybe I could just find a low cost high pass filter or add a DBX piece.

To be honest it worries me when a customer expects their background music system to sound like a disco while keeping it all neat an invisible. I don't think they realize the cost of adding equipment for volume and speaker management.

Just thought I'd see what cost effective solution you guys would use to make a room satisfyingly loud for those young customers who crave that sort of thing.
Tristan Leynes
OP | Post 2 made on Friday January 5, 2018 at 22:45
mrtristan
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I was looking at the Crown Drivecore XLS2 amp features and it says power can be voltage triggered. This is great to know. What reliable audio triggered relays or voltage devices are out there?
Tristan Leynes
Post 3 made on Friday January 5, 2018 at 23:31
Dave in Balto
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Define cost effective.

Different speakers have different properties and characteristics. For instance, I love Triad speakers, but for distributed audio with good output, I really like Definitive Di8 in ceiling speakers. Run two pairs off of a Rialto amp and you,have a nice sounding room.

Btw the audiocontrol Rialto has voltage and audio sense trigger and is a ballsy little great sounding amp.
Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here!

The Dude
Post 4 made on Friday January 5, 2018 at 23:47
Ernie Gilman
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On January 5, 2018 at 22:45, mrtristan said...
I was looking at the Crown Drivecore XLS2 amp features and it says power can be voltage triggered.

Audio voltage triggered or 12 volt trigger triggered?
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 5 made on Saturday January 6, 2018 at 00:00
tomciara
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XLS Crown amps are prob good for 24/7/15 years... Don't worry about auto on.

The Sonos amp has a subwoofer out but the connect does not. If you don't have anything connected to the subwoofer out, I suspect it will run at full range. If it's like their line inputs, it's auto sensing whether something is connected to it.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened." - Winston Churchill
Post 6 made on Saturday January 6, 2018 at 07:44
Craig Aguiar-Winter
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Is the client committed to Sonos elsewhere in the home as well?

If not since you are putting in a new source anyway, consider a HEOS link. It has sub out, crossovers, and a trigger output.

Otherwise RDL makes a selection of crossover modules you can use.

Craig
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
OP | Post 7 made on Saturday January 6, 2018 at 08:42
mrtristan
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Told the customer is might be $2K in upgrades including swapping the Connect amp with a plain connect.

Will probably try the XLS amp and leave it on as long as there is no audible hiss when music is not playing.

What about other recommendations for sensitive speakers?

Last edited by mrtristan on January 6, 2018 11:24.
Tristan Leynes
Post 8 made on Saturday January 6, 2018 at 09:00
Knightwing
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On January 6, 2018 at 07:44, Craig Aguiar-Winter said...
Is the client committed to Sonos elsewhere in the home as well?

If not since you are putting in a new source anyway, consider a HEOS link. It has sub out, crossovers, and a trigger output.

Otherwise RDL makes a selection of crossover modules you can use.

Craig

I don’t think you are correct on the crossover. The Superlink and the HEOS Drive have crossover options.
Post 9 made on Saturday January 6, 2018 at 11:32
highfigh
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The Crown XLS series have compression, crossover and other settings, but not for the input. They also have a Phoenix connector on the rear for contact closure, but from what their tech support could tell me, it only shuts off the display and the bestest, most coolest thing about it- THEY DON'T INCLUDE THE STUPID PART FOR MAKING THIS HAPPEN!

I called and explained why that's insane and they sent one to me, but I was already back from that three hour one-way trip and nobody up there has anything like it, or would know what to do if they did.

Check the levels going into the line level adapter and on the amp (if it has that). Beyond that, you're going to need a lot more power if they want it to be really loud, as well as different speakers if the ones that are in place don't have a back-box of some kind, assuming they don't want a lot of sound transmitted to the space above that room (unless it's attic space). If the space above is attic or not, as long as it has room, think about installing small-ish boxed speakers and make a custom grill. That way, an amp with auto turn-on, DSP and enough power will give the results you want. I would look at speakers that can go down to about 60Hz- that way, you won't have to worry as much about size but make sure they can handle the power.

Look at QSC amps- they're generally bulletproof.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 10 made on Saturday January 6, 2018 at 11:34
highfigh
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On January 6, 2018 at 08:42, mrtristan said...
Told the customer is might be $2K in upgrades including swapping the Connect amp with a plain connect.

Will probably try the XLS amp and leave it on as long as there is no audible hiss when music is not playing.

What about other recommendations for sensitive speakers?

The XLS amps have a sensitivity setting- make sure it's appropriate for the output from the Connect amp with the adapter.

Since you didn't mention it, which speaker to line level adapter are you using?
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 11 made on Saturday January 6, 2018 at 12:38
vwpower44
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We have two options when we run into this, and its based off budget.

Inexpensive is to use the AD2002, Bridge mode, turn the bass down.

Next step would be to use Sonance speakers and a DSP amp.

I love sonance, their DSP is great, but I truly think the AD2002 and AD3003 from audio source have a better sounding amp. Yes you sacrifice the DSP with the Audio Source, but the wattage output is much higher. I have two DSP amps I am taking out of my house and I'm putting in the AD3003. Sometimes I think the Sonance just doesn't have enough power.
Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish...
Post 12 made on Saturday January 6, 2018 at 12:54
Craig Aguiar-Winter
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On January 6, 2018 at 09:00, Knightwing said...
I don’t think you are correct on the crossover. The Superlink and the HEOS Drive have crossover options.

Darn it you are correct. Sorry for the misinformation and thanks for correction me.

Craig
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
Post 13 made on Sunday January 7, 2018 at 09:58
buzz
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Are we sure what "loud" means for this customer? Many listeners equate "loud" with distorted. In this context simply pushing higher and higher clean sounding levels is pointless -- it will never be "loud" -- even when verbal communication is difficult, under these conditions. Adding a chest thumping subwoofer can be helpfull.
OP | Post 14 made on Sunday January 7, 2018 at 10:23
mrtristan
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It's hard to know what he means by loud. I really think perception changes when people have a few drinks. I just want to get a sense of what the loudest in-ceiling speakers are as that is the only option for the type of speakers. I don't think reading exaggerated specs really help.
Tristan Leynes
Post 15 made on Sunday January 7, 2018 at 12:10
Ernie Gilman
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I put a multi-room system into the modest 1930s house of a Hollywood writer. We tested it when finished and we all thought it was able to play too loudly to listen to. We had to shout over it.

Change the scene to a party with a few celebrities and more than a hundred people: we could barely hear the sound system! There were speakers in the media room, the two bedrooms, the main hallway, the main bathroom, the kitchen, the dining room, two pairs outdoors and two pairs in the living room ceiling, and you could barely hear the sound system.

When Paul Shaffer sat down at the piano to play, the crowd went quiet, the system could be heard, and people looked at each other saying "what is that?"

Yeah, parties can get LOUD.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
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