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Got an email from dish. They will install OTA free now.
This thread has 24 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 25.
Post 16 made on Tuesday February 6, 2018 at 14:16
ericspencer
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On February 6, 2018 at 10:58, Brad Humphrey said...
That quad shielding has a lower resistance per foot than others.

"others" being what exactly?
Not my circus, not my monkeys
Post 17 made on Tuesday February 6, 2018 at 19:49
Brad Humphrey
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On February 6, 2018 at 14:16, ericspencer said...
"others" being what exactly?

braid, foil/braid, foil/braid/foil.
Post 18 made on Wednesday February 7, 2018 at 09:35
diesel
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So reading the thread I can't help to chime in. I worked for Dish for 5 1/2 years, what is being said by the techs mostly is not their fault. The "wrong wire" statements are because Dish requires that the coax be one of the approved cables on their list, there's also a good reason for it. I went to so many houses that had RG6 installed that was not 3GHz cable (which is required for Hopper systems due to the frequency requirements) and had to replace it. As a Dish tech, I hated to have to do this because: 1)My route for the day was set before I ever left the shop 2)Promotions are partly based on PPH (points per hour). Every job was given a certain amount of points and drive time was not really calculated so every time you had to reinstall cable in the house or replace the cable from the dish because it is corroded, the squirrels chewed it up, or it cracked and water got in the line it completely screwed you. I have been in the business long enough to know good coax and wouldn't replace it if it was 3GHz.

So what happens when the techs don't follow through with replacing non approved cabling...The Quality Inspectors that randomly pick houses to check come across the "bad" cable and fail the tech which negates any promotion they may have received and typically it would take 3-6 months to get back in the position to receive one.

As far as the products on the van, the sound bar was decent but never meant to replace a surround system. I understand the reason this tech would have tried to talk the customer into it though, it's because of the pressure that Dish corporate puts on its techs to sell add ons. The amount of sales not only are tracked but they now also figure in to promotions. My bread and butter were screen cleaners (pretty decent quality actually) and surge protectors.

So what happens if you don't meet your monthly "goals" for sales? You don't get promoted, oh yeah you can also get fired. Seen it several times. One of the best techs in our office (met every other goal, was a trainer, installed sat internet, etc. which adds up to a lot of money invested in him and a lot more to replace) was fired for not meeting sales goals.

From the outside it's easy to say the techs are scum, but being on the inside would have given you a whole different outlook. The techs are trying to make a living and typically do what's best for the customer. If you want to point fingers and see put blame on anyone for what the techs are doing in your customers' homes go a little further up the corporate ladder.
Post 19 made on Wednesday February 7, 2018 at 10:03
ericspencer
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On February 6, 2018 at 19:49, Brad Humphrey said...
braid, foil/braid, foil/braid/foil.

Assuming these are all RG6 shield constructions you are referring to, the statement that quad shield has lower loss is not completely accurate.

Supporting info..
Belden 1694A dual shield solid copper center 6.3dB/100ft @1000MHz
Belden 7915A tri shield solid copper center 6dB/100ft @1000MHz
Belden 7916A Quad shield solid copper center 6dB/100ft @1000MHz
Belden 1189A Quad CCS copper center 6.55dB/100ft @1000MHz
Not my circus, not my monkeys
Post 20 made on Wednesday February 7, 2018 at 11:14
Brad Humphrey
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On February 7, 2018 at 09:35, diesel said...
From the outside it's easy to say the techs are scum, but being on the inside would have given you a whole different outlook. The techs are trying to make a living and typically do what's best for the customer. If you want to point fingers and see put blame on anyone for what the techs are doing in your customers' homes go a little further up the corporate ladder.

They have a choice. They could choose NOT to work for dirty, scummy, underhanded installation firm. Same as telemarketers, used car salesmen, etc.

You don't work for them anymore. I bet you moved on when they started pushing all that crap. That makes me feel better about 'you'.

And there is nothing these a-holes do these days, that are in the customer's best interest. They are uneducated, unscrupulous techs that have been tasked with trying to rip customers off. YES! it IS ripping customers off when you push things that are detrimental to the customer's system. Either in performance or quality of installation.
Same thing that happens when someone goes into a Best Buy to try and purchase something.
At least Comcast techs do bad things because they are stupid. Not because they want to hurt the customer's system. And around here, the Comcast techs are actually pretty good. Do get a bad one every now and then thou.
Post 21 made on Wednesday February 7, 2018 at 11:18
Brad Humphrey
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On February 7, 2018 at 10:03, ericspencer said...
Assuming these are all RG6 shield constructions you are referring to, the statement that quad shield has lower loss is not completely accurate.

Supporting info..
Belden 1694A dual shield solid copper center 6.3dB/100ft @1000MHz
Belden 7915A tri shield solid copper center 6dB/100ft @1000MHz
Belden 7916A Quad shield solid copper center 6dB/100ft @1000MHz
Belden 1189A Quad CCS copper center 6.55dB/100ft @1000MHz

Hmmm... yes it does. And you just showed it true. Notice how the loss per foot goes down with each increase in the amount of material for the outer conductor. Which is just really common sense.
The last one gets worse because it is copper clad steel center conductor. That is the limiting factor on that cable, all else being equal.
Post 22 made on Wednesday February 7, 2018 at 13:17
diesel
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On February 7, 2018 at 11:14, Brad Humphrey said...
They have a choice. They could choose NOT to work for dirty, scummy, underhanded installation firm. Same as telemarketers, used car salesmen, etc.

You don't work for them anymore. I bet you moved on when they started pushing all that crap. That makes me feel better about 'you'.

And there is nothing these a-holes do these days, that are in the customer's best interest. They are uneducated, unscrupulous techs that have been tasked with trying to rip customers off. YES! it IS ripping customers off when you push things that are detrimental to the customer's system. Either in performance or quality of installation.
Same thing that happens when someone goes into a Best Buy to try and purchase something.
At least Comcast techs do bad things because they are stupid. Not because they want to hurt the customer's system. And around here, the Comcast techs are actually pretty good. Do get a bad one every now and then thou.

In my area the cable techs aren't that great. When I was working for Dish we had some very good techs where customer service was top priority. Actually Dish in general preached customer service IS a top priority and I believe they wanted that, problem is when you force employees to push products or rush through jobs it forces them to cut corners or sacrifice their own well being. This along with a very overbearing office manager is what led me to part ways. They paid quite well for our area, hours mostly sucked, believe it or not they trained well and continuously, but I got tired of being away from my family and the corporate b.s.

Some people..like me, need to keep a job they don't love and may not agree with the direction it's headed to avoid bankruptcy, divorce, etc. (pretty much where I was at when I applied to dish). When I found something else that I wanted to do and the timing was right I got out, but it wasn't an option before that point.

Just saying that we don't know everybody's circumstances so try not to judge too harshly. Don't get me wrong, I do agree there are slimy techs out there...I worked with a few of them and maybe that is what you ran in to at your client's house. I think I'm just feeling bad for the poor suckers that are still stuck that are trying to get out!
Post 23 made on Wednesday February 7, 2018 at 15:09
ericspencer
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On February 7, 2018 at 11:18, Brad Humphrey said...
Hmmm... yes it does. And you just showed it true. Notice how the loss per foot goes down with each increase in the amount of material for the outer conductor. Which is just really common sense.
The last one gets worse because it is copper clad steel center conductor. That is the limiting factor on that cable, all else being equal.

One last attempt... Belden explains .. Note: no mention of reduced attenuation.

Duobond II (Foil/Braid)
Combines all the features of Duobond with an outer braid applied for greater protection against interference and to increase the overall tensile strength.

Duobond III (Tri-Shield)
Duobond III utilizes the Duobond II design (foil/braid) plus an additional surrounding layer of Duofoil. This extra layer of foil improves shield reliability and provides an additional interference barrier.

Duobond IV (Quad Shield)
Duobond IV adds a second layer of braid to the Tri-shield design (foil/braid/foil/braid). This extra layer of braid shield provides improved strength and durability.
Not my circus, not my monkeys
Post 24 made on Wednesday February 7, 2018 at 17:16
Brad Humphrey
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Eric,
All the Belden docs talk up the extra shielding. But as everyone mentions, interference is usually never an issue, even with dual shield (foil/braid). So it is a moot point and has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

The resistance benefit of quad. Just like 18awg wire has less resistance than 20awg. And 16awg better than 18awg. So does the outer conductor on coax, where quad shield has a lower resistance than dual shield. This helps in lowering the overall resistance on any given run. Simple law of physics, nothing complicated.
Not sure what is being missed here in the resistance equation. Are you trying to say that a thick piece of 10awg wire, doesn't do any better than an 18awg piece of wire at transferring power?
OP | Post 25 made on Wednesday February 7, 2018 at 20:37
gerard143
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Televes Diginova Boss is the antenna they installed to answer the earlier question.
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