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Diluvio Pool Speakers
This thread has 9 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Sunday December 17, 2017 at 13:32
tca
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We are installing 3 Diluvio underwater speakers in a pool. We're trying to find the best amp and wiring method. We will be integrating it with a control4 system, and although it would be nice to have individual control of each speaker, it's not necessary.

For those that have done these speakers, what is the best amp and method of wiring?

I've seen individual amps for each speaker, and wiring in series with one larger amp.

Thanks.
Post 2 made on Monday December 18, 2017 at 01:18
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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Looking at all the info, connection-wise they look like just about any other speaker. They're 4 ohms, the wire is 16 gauge. Three of them offer a connection challenge. I'd have to make my mind up between three amp channels and one amp channel. I'd probably go with one amp channel.

And yeah, the system has to be powered through a GFCI.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
OP | Post 3 made on Wednesday December 20, 2017 at 21:04
tca
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Ernie,

If we go with one amp channel, which amp would you use?

We used a crown on a past job, and it was ok.

What is the formula for figuring it out?

Thanks.
Post 4 made on Thursday December 21, 2017 at 03:36
Ernie Gilman
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First, I'd contact Diluvio and ask what amps they recommend or recommend against.
I don't much care what mono power amps are out there, so I can't make any recommendations at all. Any mono amp I'd use would have a 70 volt output. One thing is that the mono amp requires putting all three speakers in series or in parallel. In series, you'd get a total of about 2/3 of the amp's rated output (guessing -- it's too late to do any math at all), and that would be split among three speakers. So a hundred watt (at 8 ohms) amp would give you about 22 watts per speaker. Any problem with a speaker that would affect its impedance would affect all three speakers.

Is the amp going to be protected indoors? Use three channels of a four channel amp, something beefy like a crown. Three amp channels that total 100 watts (sum of the three outputs into 4 ohms) would give you about 33 watts per channel.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 5 made on Thursday December 21, 2017 at 08:07
Craig Aguiar-Winter
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How much power would you need under water? I would think VERY little.

What are the speakers rated for?

Craig
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
Post 6 made on Thursday December 21, 2017 at 08:36
Dave in Balto
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I'd ask them for an amp recommendation. I'd home run them, their niche looks line a normal pool light fixture, they'll have to go through conduit back to a central point. Their niche looks like its metal, make sure the pool guys know to bond it to the grid.
Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here!

The Dude
Post 7 made on Thursday December 21, 2017 at 12:43
Ernie Gilman
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On December 21, 2017 at 08:07, Craig Aguiar-Winter said...
How much power would you need under water? I would think VERY little.

From the site:
Specifications: • Continuous Power Handling: 135 watts • Impedance: 4 ohms • Overload Protection: Polyswitch • Frequency Respone: 20Hz to 17kHz • Electrical Connecion: 100ft. - Underwater, 16-2 Wire • Dimensions: 8” (20.3cm) Dia. x 4.5” (11.5cm) Deep • Recommended Amplification: 125 - 150 W at 4 Ohms

I just thought of something that wasn't a problem with the one pair of underwater speakers we've done, but you'd think it would be an issue: The conduit carrying the speaker wire away from the speaker will be filled with water. It's underwater going off away from the pool until you're at a place where you can bring it up above the water level. That could allow leakage and stagnation.

The conduit has to be really well sealed. Otherwise water will drain out of the pool through the parts of it below the water level.

Worse, the water in the conduit has a chance to stagnate. There's nothing to circulate that water! I suppose you could have an opening on the back side of the speaker, say, somewhere in the conduit near the speaker. You could then regularly flush the conduit from where it comes above the water level.

Chlorine or none, a volume of water that doesn't circulate or get flushed can be a problem!
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
OP | Post 8 made on Thursday December 21, 2017 at 21:18
tca
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We've done this before. The niche is a normal light niche. They go in just like lights. They need about 125-150 watts per speaker at 4 ohms. Last time we used a crown cdi amp. I'm not opposed to using another crown. I would just like to figure out the math.

The company does not recommend any amp. They just give specs. They used to recommend samson.

If we go with a crown or something similar, I need to figure out the math to get at least 125 watts per speaker at 4ohms wired in series.
Post 9 made on Thursday December 21, 2017 at 23:12
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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tca,
Ohm's Law for power is P = IV, which can also be expressed as P = V squared/R.

If you want three speakers in series, each getting 125 watts, then you need to deliver 375 watts to a 12 ohm load. But damn, amps are rated at 8 ohms! How can I spec an amp for 12 ohms when they are specced for 8 ohms? The answer is voltage.

It's reasonable to expect that an amp will have the same output voltage with a 12 ohm load that they do with an 8 ohm load. So we figure the needed output voltage into 12 ohms, then express that voltage as the power it would be with an 8 ohm load.

So what would the voltage be? The square root of power times load, in this case sq rt 375*12, which is 67 volts.

Turning it around, 67 volts into 8 ohms delivers V squared / R = 560 watts.

So you need a 560 watt at 8 ohm mono amp. The extra wattage won't be used; the amp will only output 375 watts into those 12 ohms.




The math is not complicated, but the way amps work makes it not obvious. A power amp that delivers 375 watts to an 8 ohm load delivers less to a 12 ohm load. We have to make an assumption and redo the math.
First, it's reasonable to assume that an amp powering a 12 ohm load will put out the same voltage level that it does at a particular volume control setting with an 8 ohm load.
So... what's the amp output voltage that will deliver 375 watts into 12 ohms? Then we express that voltage in terms of an 8 ohm load so you can actually specify what you want.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 10 made on Tuesday October 23, 2018 at 08:04
MediaImageAV
Long Time Member
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Has anyone incorporated a Diluvio or any similar product with a standard speaker in the same zone? My customer wants to use this for synchronized swimming and a metronome signal is used for training. Ideally I'd have the underwater speaker and an outdoor speaker both playing the same output. My concern is delay. Will the pool/water/Diluvio combo introduce delay and cause it to be out of sync with the outdoor speaker? I can use separate amps or amp channels for each speaker and add a delay to one. Will this be necessary?


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