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Topic:
Caseta "Extension"
This thread has 36 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
Post 16 made on Thursday November 2, 2017 at 19:50
Brad Humphrey
Senior Member
Joined:
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February 2004
1,251
hot banana peppers
yum....
Post 17 made on Thursday November 2, 2017 at 19:59
Zohan
Super Member
Joined:
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September 2010
2,935
I prefer hot taco.
Post 18 made on Thursday November 2, 2017 at 20:02
ShaferCustoms
Regular Member
Joined:
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March 2014
296
Peach Bhut Jolokia

I can still feel the burn!
Post 19 made on Friday November 3, 2017 at 01:11
tomciara
Loyal Member
Joined:
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May 2002
6,203
On November 2, 2017 at 20:02, ShaferCustoms said...
Peach Bhut Jolokia

I can still feel the burn!

For entertainment on these cold wintry nights ahead, go to YouTube and search "eating hot peppers".

I have home made ghost pepper jam, Carolina reaper jelly, Trinidad scorpion jelly, more. They last a long time. The Trinidad scorpion has a date of 2012 on it. It will neve spoil. Nothing could grow in there.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened." - Winston Churchill
OP | Post 20 made on Friday November 3, 2017 at 11:27
3PedalMINI
Loyal Member
Joined:
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7,156
On November 2, 2017 at 17:32, Stryker said...
Take a cheap line, add a control system and now it can do more, WOW add money to make it do what other systems already do

Wow, Who the hell pissed in your wheaties yesterday, did I strike a cord with some obvious lutron frustrations your harboring?

Its a no brainer because its your house? or a client? you would do this in a clients house? poor man's lighting panel? your target market is poor men?
Why would you mix. just because of cost?

First of all bud, this is all for MY HOUSE. Its important to familiarize your self with products. As someone who just got married and in the midst of a house renovation its important to save some money where I can. When the performance of caseta does everything a panel or "ra2 select" could why not save money? explain me that, I would love to understand why im making a huge mistake by doing what im doing-For MY house let me add.

Killing it? Making more money than if you had sold one RA2 system for every 4 caseta jobs?
Or do you mean because you install caseta, you also get to add thousands in control4 to the project?

Killing it because I keep a probridge on the truck and 3 lamp dimmers. If I see a client during an install that I think could be a candidate for LC I throw it in as a demo for 45 days. 9 out of 10 times they finally understand what all the talk of LC is. This is when I switch them into C4 lighting. thats where my 1000's come from. Because it takes me less then 3 minutes to deploy that its basically free advertising. Sorry my DIY gateway pieces are putting money in the bank for my family.

Lutron frustrates you because they dont give integrators a DIY priced solution. Damn near every manufacturer in this space must piss you off

Lutron is undermining their own company with offering caseta and not offering an upgrade path. unless this has changed if a client has a previous caseta system installed (electronics are installing them more frequently in kitchens even) you have to rip it all out if you sell them RA2 select. Completely stupid. The fact that someone can get 3 caseta switches for less then the cost of one dimmer that doesnt frustrate you? some people dont care about aesthetics, or plain stupid. They get a quote from you for a kitchen with ra2 select, then get a simple quote from the electrician or another integrator for 1/3 the price for a product that does 95% of ra2 who are they going to go with? No because you seem dense, I will add that I DO NOT quote caseta for anything other then a small system or media room where were hitting a budget. Other then that its normally C4 lighting that goes in.

You sell clients a non expandable non upgradable lighting system. but its clients fault if they invested? Do you hate the people who spend money with you?

See above.

Is selling a Lighting system meant for integrators too hard for you to sell in your market?† I understand that markets vary across the country but are you just not having the right skill set to sell a step up product?

No, I have no problem selling lighting control system. My market supports it. What I do have a problem is ripping out product that works perfectly fine. I rather a client keep that money in their pocket or to put that into an upgraded projector, TV, Speakers, Amps etc. I make more money on those products then I do on lighting anyway.

Ra2 Select addresses the issues of expandability and upgradabilty and is a little lower cost then RA2 but its the biggest joke in our industry?

It saves the money over a main repeater, generally someone that can afford ra2 can give a shit about saving ~200 bucks. Why limit yourself by putting in a ra2 select repeater when the Main Repeater can do so much more, seems stupid. They should have dropped the cost of the switches to come in between Caseta and RA2, limit those to ~50 devices, then IF they want to expand then you have to replace the Select bridge with a main repeater, then update the switches. We ALL KNOW every product in lutrons lineup could be compatible with one another, they just limit it via software.

Do you drink a lot?

No, But after your post I grabbed a beer. Absent minded folks in this industry is what give us great integrators a bad name. wether you like it or not the industry is rapidly changing and evolving. there will be a time when C4/Crestron/Vantage/Lutron HAVE to bring the cost of LC down.
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
Post 21 made on Saturday November 4, 2017 at 02:33
BrettLee3232
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
December 2009
350
Not sure why all the Caseta bashing.... I use it in my own house. Works great with a control system, works great with the standalone app. Works great when you want a 3way or 4way Switch. It works with all bulbs ( well havenít tried fluorescent ), itís very cost effective & personally I donít think the switches look bad. Itís a lot better than a Skylark Dimmer!!

Iíve installed a few systems for clients. I even did a 3000sqft house with all LED bulbs on Caseta. Works great on his control system & standalone app. Switches work & 3ways work.

Customer wanted lighting control but didnít want to spend ď$40,000Ē on a lighting system his best friend had. He ended up spending a few grand & couldnít be happier.

My only gripe with Caseta is no fan control. I guess you have to step up to Ra2 Select for that haha.

I agree though, if Ra2 Select could use Caseta switches then it would be a home run. Save the Caseta for Home Depot but still allow us to integrate the Caseta switches with Select. We all know it can be done....they just have to let us.

Only issue Iíve ever had with Caseta is a blinking led load....but it wasnít casetaís fault.

Why all the hate? Sell C4, sell Crestron, sell Lutron, sell Leviton...sell whatever makes you money & works. If a customer can afford it then cool. But not everyone wants to spend 10k plus on lighting control even if they can afford it.

Just my 2 cents
Knowing that Gold went up a few K makes me think "well now I have to do a better job on selling more equipment".

-Me... Jan. 2014
Post 22 made on Saturday November 4, 2017 at 11:02
Rob Grabon
Founding Member
Joined:
Posts:
November 2001
1,052
Lighting control is a special category. Most everyone wants it, but they need to justify the cost to themselves. And it's hard to explain to a client why this dimmer costs 4 times that one, sometimes it's hard to explain to ourselves.

And the vendors are caught with how to sell it for less now, than we did before, without upsetting everyone who already bought it.

Lutron's clever answer, Caseta and Select.
How will the other companies answer the market? (they're going to need to!)
Technology is cheap, Time is expensive.
Post 23 made on Saturday November 4, 2017 at 19:50
Fins
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2007
9,578
Just to add to the fun here, Iím thinking of trying out some Philips Hue stuff. Someone has made an Elan driver for it.

Flame on
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 24 made on Saturday November 4, 2017 at 22:11
Stryker
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
November 2010
318
On November 3, 2017 at 11:27, 3PedalMINI said...
Wow, Who the hell pissed in your wheaties yesterday, did I strike a cord with some obvious lutron frustrations your harboring?

No one that I know of. Maybee I came across as harsh? I just dont understand how you say Caseta does everything a step up lighting system does, but you add "with a control system" meaning that adding money to low cost solution makes it do more. Like this is a discovery of some magnitude? isnt that what control systems have been doing for 30 years?

First of all bud, this is all for MY HOUSE. Its important to familiarize your self with products. As someone who just got married and in the midst of a house renovation its important to save some money where I can. When the performance of caseta does everything a panel or "ra2 select" could why not save money? explain me that, I would love to understand why im making a huge mistake by doing what im doing-For MY house let me add.

Yeh Bud. I get that the extension is for YOUR house. But your second post said clients, Which is why I asked the questions I did, do you do this for clients? Its totally fine by me. Except that you complained about the limitations of Caseta yet you install it for clients? thats where I was confused.

And as you said because you have a control system on top of the Caseta you saved money compared to a RA2 system. But if you add the Caseta and Control4 together?

You said RA2 select was the biggest joke sence HDMI which I still dont understand. It is a chuckle at best.

Killing it because I keep a probridge on the truck and 3 lamp dimmers. If I see a client during an install that I think could be a candidate for LC I throw it in as a demo for 45 days. 9 out of 10 times they finally understand what all the talk of LC is. This is when I switch them into C4 lighting. thats where my 1000's come from. Because it takes me less then 3 minutes to deploy that its basically free advertising. Sorry my DIY gateway pieces are putting money in the bank for my family.

Dont be sorry, You said your were killing it with LC and it wasnt clear as it sounded like you were killing it with Caseta. Your above paragraph explains it better, your not actually doing Caseta for clients your using it as an education tool to then sell C4 lighting. Now I understand.

Lutron is undermining their own company with offering caseta and not offering an upgrade path. unless this has changed if a client has a previous caseta system installed (electronics are installing them more frequently in kitchens even) you have to rip it all out if you sell them RA2 select. Completely stupid. The fact that someone can get 3 caseta switches for less then the cost of one dimmer that doesnt frustrate you? some people dont care about aesthetics, or plain stupid. They get a quote from you for a kitchen with ra2 select, then get a simple quote from the electrician or another integrator for 1/3 the price for a product that does 95% of ra2 who are they going to go with? No because you seem dense, I will add that I DO NOT quote caseta for anything other then a small system or media room where were hitting a budget. Other then that its normally C4 lighting that goes in.

Yes I can be dense and thats why I asked Questions. Its how we learn right?
The fact that your have to rip out caseta to install RA2 is "completly stupid" why? Caseta was never designed or sold or represented to be an upgradeable path. I guess your just wishing that it was?
No the costs of Caseta dont bother me at all. (I think its great as a whole market of people that have never had LC before, now can) I do agree that Lutron cutting its own sales with Caseta but as I undertand it. the Purpose of caseta was for DIY and to get larger brand awareness for Lutron. They were surprised by the number of integrators and electricians that started installing Caseta (or at least thats what my distributor says)
See above.

No, I have no problem selling lighting control system. My market supports it. What I do have a problem is ripping out product that works perfectly fine. I rather a client keep that money in their pocket or to put that into an upgraded projector, TV, Speakers, Amps etc. I make more money on those products then I do on lighting anyway.

Right. So dont sell them caseta and you dont have to rip it out. so no issue there as You dont sell caseta except for one room solutions and small systems(Im not sure what small is maybee 6-8 loads?)
This is also why I asked about market. If your average client home is in the 2-4M range I just dont see how Caseta or many of the lower cost alternatives can handle this. They dont seem designed for it from my perspective.
It saves the money over a main repeater, generally someone that can afford ra2 can give a shit about saving ~200 bucks. Why limit yourself by putting in a ra2 select repeater when the Main Repeater can do so much more, seems stupid. They should have dropped the cost of the switches to come in between Caseta and RA2, limit those to ~50 devices, then IF they want to expand then you have to replace the Select bridge with a main repeater, then update the switches. We ALL KNOW every product in lutrons lineup could be compatible with one another, they just limit it via software.

It really sounds like you have issues with the way Lutron is running thier product lines. You should talk to them about your ideas.
I understand that one of the other plusses for RA2 Select is the ability to program the whole thing from an ipad versus having to use the software. Some see this as a plus and a large cost savings considering that an average RA2 job (30-50 devices) has what $1500-$2000 in programming costs? Does Caseta do Sivoia Shades or Just Serena?
No, But after your post I grabbed a beer. Absent minded folks in this industry is what give us great integrators a bad name. wether you like it or not the industry is rapidly changing and evolving. there will be a time when C4/Crestron/Vantage/Lutron HAVE to bring the cost of LC down.

What kind of Beer? Its the most important question of the thread

Im not very familiar with the Absent minded folks but it seems like between Caseta, RA2 Select, RA2, and QS (and thier standard devices) Lutron pretty much has all the lighting markets covered. I do wonder if C4 will come out with a non composer programmed LC solution. Crestron even went to pyng and its actually pretty quick to get a lighting system going (cost of hardware not withstanding). Cant speak to Vantage. But there is Insteon. Phillips. HAI and it seems like a dozen other low cost LC solutions, hell they even have IOT devices that you put on top of a traditional switch that then mechanically flip the switch Who would have predicted that?

This industry always changes. and quickly you are correct. Its part of what makes it fun. If I could predict where we will be in 10 years............
"If they give you ruled paper, write the other way"
Post 25 made on Saturday November 4, 2017 at 22:35
Fins
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2007
9,578
On November 4, 2017 at 22:11, Stryker said...
No one that I know of. Maybee I came across as harsh? I just dont understand how you say Caseta does everything a step up lighting system does, but you add "with a control system" meaning that adding money to low cost solution makes it do more. Like this is a discovery of some magnitude? isnt that what control systems have been doing for 30 years?
Yeh Bud. I get that the extension is for YOUR house. But your second post said clients, Which is why I asked the questions I did, do you do this for clients? Its totally fine by me. Except that you complained about the limitations of Caseta yet you install it for clients? thats where I was confused.

And as you said because you have a control system on top of the Caseta you saved money compared to a RA2 system. But if you add the Caseta and Control4 together?

You said RA2 select was the biggest joke sence HDMI which I still dont understand. It is a chuckle at best.

Dont be sorry, You said your were killing it with LC and it wasnt clear as it sounded like you were killing it with Caseta. Your above paragraph explains it better, your not actually doing Caseta for clients your using it as an education tool to then sell C4 lighting. Now I understand.

Yes I can be dense and thats why I asked Questions. Its how we learn right?
The fact that your have to rip out caseta to install RA2 is "completly stupid" why? Caseta was never designed or sold or represented to be an upgradeable path. I guess your just wishing that it was?
No the costs of Caseta dont bother me at all. (I think its great as a whole market of people that have never had LC before, now can) I do agree that Lutron cutting its own sales with Caseta but as I undertand it. the Purpose of caseta was for DIY and to get larger brand awareness for Lutron. They were surprised by the number of integrators and electricians that started installing Caseta (or at least thats what my distributor says)
Right. So dont sell them caseta and you dont have to rip it out. so no issue there as You dont sell caseta except for one room solutions and small systems(Im not sure what small is maybee 6-8 loads?)
This is also why I asked about market. If your average client home is in the 2-4M range I just dont see how Caseta or many of the lower cost alternatives can handle this. They dont seem designed for it from my perspective.

It really sounds like you have issues with the way Lutron is running thier product lines. You should talk to them about your ideas.
I understand that one of the other plusses for RA2 Select is the ability to program the whole thing from an ipad versus having to use the software. Some see this as a plus and a large cost savings considering that an average RA2 job (30-50 devices) has what $1500-$2000 in programming costs? Does Caseta do Sivoia Shades or Just Serena?

What kind of Beer? Its the most important question of the thread

Im not very familiar with the Absent minded folks but it seems like between Caseta, RA2 Select, RA2, and QS (and thier standard devices) Lutron pretty much has all the lighting markets covered. I do wonder if C4 will come out with a non composer programmed LC solution. Crestron even went to pyng and its actually pretty quick to get a lighting system going (cost of hardware not withstanding). Cant speak to Vantage. But there is Insteon. Phillips. HAI and it seems like a dozen other low cost LC solutions, hell they even have IOT devices that you put on top of a traditional switch that then mechanically flip the switch Who would have predicted that?

This industry always changes. and quickly you are correct. Its part of what makes it fun. If I could predict where we will be in 10 years............

Ah... screw it. Iím way deep into a bottle of American Eagle and really donít care about the rest.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 26 made on Saturday November 4, 2017 at 22:38
Fins
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2007
9,578
On November 4, 2017 at 22:35, Fins said...
Ah... screw it. Iím way deep into a bottle of American Eagle and really donít care about the rest.

F•£~
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 27 made on Sunday November 5, 2017 at 12:02
brucewayne
Advanced Member
Joined:
Posts:
March 2006
858
32 devices ? I thought it was 50? Does the bridge count as a few devices?
brucewayne
Post 28 made on Friday November 10, 2017 at 12:51
Mario
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
November 2006
5,410
On November 5, 2017 at 12:02, brucewayne said...
32 devices ? I thought it was 50? Does the bridge count as a few devices?

Picos count as devices against the total 50.
If you have a bunch of 3 or 4 way devices, total usable switch count can go down rather quickly.
Post 29 made on Friday November 10, 2017 at 13:46
Don Heany
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2008
622
On November 10, 2017 at 12:51, Mario said...
Picos count as devices against the total 50.
If you have a bunch of 3 or 4 way devices, total usable switch count can go down rather quickly.

Pro dimmers allow for standard 3way dimmer attachment if you want to steer clear of the WBX-ADAPT solution and keep the count down.
Post 30 made on Monday November 13, 2017 at 16:24
2nd rick
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2002
4,511
With Caseta, the first Lamp Dimmer you add to the system will function as a repeater. Otherwise, there are no auxiliary repeaters. If you have an existing install with several Lamp Dimmers, unpair and repair them, and be sure to place the first one in the most appropriate Lamp Dimmer location to extend the range or cover a dead spot.

The lack of aux repeaters is an intentional shortcoming with Caseta.
This alone is why Ra2Select is a worthwhile product offering.

Ra2Select can be programmed from an iPad (like Caseta).
Dealers wanted that....

Ra2Select can be upgraded to full blown Level-2, 200 device, Ra2 job by simply swapping one device (the main repeater).
That alone is another giant selling point to Ra2Select.

Same goes with the applications where their design grows to include power bposters or other devices that only exist on full blown Ra2. With Caseta installed in the first instance, you would be having a very uncomfortable conversation about replacing every single device.

However, if you are already planning to rip out Caseta and go to C4 whenever the Caseta device limits are reached, then your situation is atypical.
It is not at all in Lutron's interest to specifically suit to your plans, and your own mileage may vary.

For Lutron to support a low cost product to a full-blown 200 limit Ra2 Lutron upgrade path in in everyone else's interest.

IMO, Ra2 Select is a major winner.
Rick Murphy
Allnet Distributing
Carmel, Indiana www.allnetdistributing.com
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