On November 3, 2017 at 11:27, 3PedalMINI said...
Wow, Who the hell pissed in your wheaties yesterday, did I strike a cord with some obvious lutron frustrations your harboring?
No one that I know of. Maybee I came across as harsh? I just dont understand how you say Caseta does everything a step up lighting system does, but you add "with a control system" meaning that adding money to low cost solution makes it do more. Like this is a discovery of some magnitude? isnt that what control systems have been doing for 30 years?
First of all bud, this is all for MY HOUSE. Its important to familiarize your self with products. As someone who just got married and in the midst of a house renovation its important to save some money where I can. When the performance of caseta does everything a panel or "ra2 select" could why not save money? explain me that, I would love to understand why im making a huge mistake by doing what im doing-For MY house let me add.
Yeh Bud. I get that the extension is for YOUR house. But your second post said clients, Which is why I asked the questions I did, do you do this for clients? Its totally fine by me. Except that you complained about the limitations of Caseta yet you install it for clients? thats where I was confused.
And as you said because you have a control system on top of the Caseta you saved money compared to a RA2 system. But if you add the Caseta and Control4 together?
You said RA2 select was the biggest joke sence HDMI which I still dont understand. It is a chuckle at best.
Killing it because I keep a probridge on the truck and 3 lamp dimmers. If I see a client during an install that I think could be a candidate for LC I throw it in as a demo for 45 days. 9 out of 10 times they finally understand what all the talk of LC is. This is when I switch them into C4 lighting. thats where my 1000's come from. Because it takes me less then 3 minutes to deploy that its basically free advertising. Sorry my DIY gateway pieces are putting money in the bank for my family.
Dont be sorry, You said your were killing it with LC and it wasnt clear as it sounded like you were killing it with Caseta. Your above paragraph explains it better, your not actually doing Caseta for clients your using it as an education tool to then sell C4 lighting. Now I understand.
Lutron is undermining their own company with offering caseta and not offering an upgrade path. unless this has changed if a client has a previous caseta system installed (electronics are installing them more frequently in kitchens even) you have to rip it all out if you sell them RA2 select. Completely stupid. The fact that someone can get 3 caseta switches for less then the cost of one dimmer that doesnt frustrate you? some people dont care about aesthetics, or plain stupid. They get a quote from you for a kitchen with ra2 select, then get a simple quote from the electrician or another integrator for 1/3 the price for a product that does 95% of ra2 who are they going to go with? No because you seem dense, I will add that I DO NOT quote caseta for anything other then a small system or media room where were hitting a budget. Other then that its normally C4 lighting that goes in.
Yes I can be dense and thats why I asked Questions. Its how we learn right?
The fact that your have to rip out caseta to install RA2 is "completly stupid" why? Caseta was never designed or sold or represented to be an upgradeable path. I guess your just wishing that it was?
No the costs of Caseta dont bother me at all. (I think its great as a whole market of people that have never had LC before, now can) I do agree that Lutron cutting its own sales with Caseta but as I undertand it. the Purpose of caseta was for DIY and to get larger brand awareness for Lutron. They were surprised by the number of integrators and electricians that started installing Caseta (or at least thats what my distributor says)
No, I have no problem selling lighting control system. My market supports it. What I do have a problem is ripping out product that works perfectly fine. I rather a client keep that money in their pocket or to put that into an upgraded projector, TV, Speakers, Amps etc. I make more money on those products then I do on lighting anyway.
Right. So dont sell them caseta and you dont have to rip it out. so no issue there as You dont sell caseta except for one room solutions and small systems(Im not sure what small is maybee 6-8 loads?)
This is also why I asked about market. If your average client home is in the 2-4M range I just dont see how Caseta or many of the lower cost alternatives can handle this. They dont seem designed for it from my perspective.
It saves the money over a main repeater, generally someone that can afford ra2 can give a shit about saving ~200 bucks. Why limit yourself by putting in a ra2 select repeater when the Main Repeater can do so much more, seems stupid. They should have dropped the cost of the switches to come in between Caseta and RA2, limit those to ~50 devices, then IF they want to expand then you have to replace the Select bridge with a main repeater, then update the switches. We ALL KNOW every product in lutrons lineup could be compatible with one another, they just limit it via software.
It really sounds like you have issues with the way Lutron is running thier product lines. You should talk to them about your ideas.
I understand that one of the other plusses for RA2 Select is the ability to program the whole thing from an ipad versus having to use the software. Some see this as a plus and a large cost savings considering that an average RA2 job (30-50 devices) has what $1500-$2000 in programming costs? Does Caseta do Sivoia Shades or Just Serena?
No, But after your post I grabbed a beer. Absent minded folks in this industry is what give us great integrators a bad name. wether you like it or not the industry is rapidly changing and evolving. there will be a time when C4/Crestron/Vantage/Lutron HAVE to bring the cost of LC down.
What kind of Beer? Its the most important question of the thread
Im not very familiar with the Absent minded folks but it seems like between Caseta, RA2 Select, RA2, and QS (and thier standard devices) Lutron pretty much has all the lighting markets covered. I do wonder if C4 will come out with a non composer programmed LC solution. Crestron even went to pyng and its actually pretty quick to get a lighting system going (cost of hardware not withstanding). Cant speak to Vantage. But there is Insteon. Phillips. HAI and it seems like a dozen other low cost LC solutions, hell they even have IOT devices that you put on top of a traditional switch that then mechanically flip the switch Who would have predicted that?
This industry always changes. and quickly you are correct. Its part of what makes it fun. If I could predict where we will be in 10 years............