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Topic:
Help me find a micro switch or workable solution to gate tracking
This thread has 21 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 22.
Post 16 made on Friday October 27, 2017 at 15:16
Brad Humphrey
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On October 27, 2017 at 14:10, buzz said...
But, wouldn't any unsanctioned connection to the existing electronics void the UL certification?

I don't know if an actual connection would. But as mentioned, there is a dedicated output for exactly what he wants to do anyway.
The only reason to connect directly to the limit switches at this point, would be to add the benefit of knowing when the gate is in the full open position; as opposed to just knowing it isn't closed. Something that might not even be able to take advantage of in the C4 interface, so possibly a moot point.
OP | Post 17 made on Saturday October 28, 2017 at 12:36
Mario
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On October 27, 2017 at 11:24, Ernie Gilman said...
Want help? PROVIDE MODEL NUMBERS.

People just won't think to do this. I wrote my signature probably ten years ago after counting actually more than a thousand times when people -- yes, smart people -- asked for help but left out the model number and sometimes even the brand.

If you leave out the model number you make it impossible to get an instant response from the one wacko out here who has figured out all the things that can be done with that model. And that wacko is probably out here! Sure, sooner or later someone will tell you to provide the model number... why is it so hard to imagine that it might be helpful to do that at the start?

If there aren't terminals made for this, you have to be sure not to draw too much current with whatever you piggyback onto the circuit. Don't want a simple add-on to kill the unit!

Too bad the model number isn't known. Someone took the time to look through "some of the manuals" for you but could not actually help you.

Ernie,
You've 'known' me for almost a decade now.
While no one is as anal as you, I probably come the closest to you.
The reason I didn't provide a model number, is because there isn't one printed on the board. [Link: photos.app.goo.gl]
As this situation evolved, and vendors started getting back to me, I was able to spend more time on the interwebs and figure out (by comparing pictures) what the most likely part number might be.
With that, I was able to download several manuals and get board layout to compare.
This started as a simple switch replacement request, but has grown into a much better solution of using already defined contact points as MFG intended.
OP | Post 18 made on Saturday October 28, 2017 at 12:39
Mario
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On October 27, 2017 at 11:11, ericspencer said...
Those micro switches are both NC and NO, that is what the unused tab is on the switch. Figure out which one the open tab is ie NC or NO and figure out a way to make that be your trigger.

That was the first thing I tried.
Somehow, and I still don't know why, it didn't work.
While using common (middle) tab and unused one, the board would go trouble.
Going inline with the signal would do the same. That one I expected actually.

Since then, I was able to figure out the board's model and found that there are dedicated contact points for what I'm trying to do, so I'll be pursuing that avenue.

Thanks for suggestion.
OP | Post 19 made on Saturday October 28, 2017 at 12:55
Mario
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On October 27, 2017 at 11:23, Brad Humphrey said...
From your pictures: It appears the limit switches have N.O. & N.C. contacts on them. The gate system is only using the N.O. contacts (Red & Orange wires) of the outputs. You can easily connect to the N.C. contacts and use that for what you want. The Common wires are the Brown & Yellow which can also be found at the J3 connector on the board (Pins 5 & 9).
This would give you precise tracking of when the gate is fully closed or fully open. This however will require 2 inputs on your C4 dry contact board. Or you could just use the close limit switch to let you know when the gate is closed and program the alternate signal as being gate open.
The benefits of using both contacts would be a message saying the gate is active, when in between open & close. Which could show you a stuck gate if it stayed like that for a long time.

Brad, thank you for that detailed response and suggestions given.
I would love to use the open/close limit switch, but couldn't get them to work in the little time I had. Might be a simple diode issue, but at this point I'm ready to move on.

Yes, the C4 would need 2 contacts with the first solution.
Luckily, the C4-Z2IO gizmo is field configurable for 2 relays, 1 relay & 2 contacts, or 4 contacts, all the while having internal and external temp sensor and even humidity! Oh, let me not forget 2 IR outputs.
What's even better is that it can accept onboard voltages from 5 to 24 volts in both DC and A/C. It also comes with wall wart for standard 120VAC.
This makes it virtually universally compatible installation from security and access control systems, to HVAC and industrial equipment.
OP | Post 20 made on Saturday October 28, 2017 at 13:23
Mario
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On October 27, 2017 at 11:23, Brad Humphrey said...
The simplest way is to just use 1 contact and if so, you do not even need to touch the limit switches - see below.

Alternately as I mentioned before: There are terminals to do exactly what you want already built into the system. Connector J6 has alarm outputs to connect the C4 system to, that will indicate if the gate is open. This is how you are 'suppose' to tie into the gate system. If the gate system has the optional "Omni Option Board" installed on connector J2, then there is also a set of alarm outputs there to tie into.

This is the option I'm going to go with.
Looking at the J6 alarm output, I can't find any info to suggest if the alarm is active while the gate is moving, opening or closing only or on while the gate is open.
There are wires already connected to that jumper, and it looks like they might be going to a speaker (siren), but I don't remember hearing any beeping sound while the gate was in motion. It's possible the speaker went bad, or someone cut one or both leads off to silence it.

The other option as you mention is the J2 connector.
Few I was able to track down the part number OOMNIEXB.
"Elite O-OMNI-EXB Omni Option Board" comes up with this one page "manual": [Link: afence.com]

Looking at it, I thought this was a simple sales sheet, but to my surprise, I can't find anything more detailed about it.
No voltage information, no description of when this is triggered, what current it'll accept or pass.

Pins 10&11 are for Burglar Alarm Output. OK. Now what? Is this a relay?
- Is it active while in operation?
- Is it active (open or close) when open?
- Does it timeout (timer) or is it shunt?
- Is it N.O. or N.C. (power failure status)?

At 50 bucks, I'll get one in and play with it.

Lastly, there is also an option for a Q400MAU, which is an external MAGLOCK RELAY.
Again, no info on when it's active, etc.
Obviously it's engaged when gate is closed, but does it shut off and stays off when gate is opening?
How about closing? Does it come on when limit switch indicates fully closed position or when closing sequence start (pull in assist/retain)?

We're getting more and more away from technical specs and I don't like it.
No wonder Radio Shack closed. No one knows what breadboard, resistors and capacitors are anymore.
Post 21 made on Saturday October 28, 2017 at 13:47
ceied
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why not add a couple of security mag sensors to it to get a nc/no , go no go status... easy peazy
Ed will be known as the Tiger Woods of the integration business, followed closely with the renaming of his company to "Hotties A/V". The tag line will be "We like big racks and tight holes"...
OP | Post 22 made on Saturday October 28, 2017 at 14:34
Mario
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On October 28, 2017 at 13:47, ceied said...
why not add a couple of security mag sensors to it to get a nc/no , go no go status... easy peazy

Limited space in mounting is one reason.
The other reason is that I didn't install the gate or the operator and if/when the gate company comes for any service calls, I didn't want them to see anything they can/could mess with.
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