Your Universal Remote Control Center
RemoteCentral.com
Custom Installers' Lounge Forum - View Post
Previous section Next section Up level
Up level
The following page was printed from RemoteCentral.com:

Login:
Pass:
 
 

Topic:
Testing/Trimming Structured Wiring
This thread has 9 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Sunday September 10, 2017 at 23:25
crosen
Senior Member
Joined:
Posts:
April 2009
1,262
Typically, when I run structured wiring, the process looks like this:

1. Wire rough-in - this is complete while all walls are open. Once done, all wires are inventoried, but none are tested.

2. Wire inspection/testing - once the wall are up, but before they are painted, all wires are terminated and tested to find wires that were damaged when the walls went up. Unfortunately, the termination is only temporary, because the head end is not ready for patch panels to be mounted and the rooms aren't ready for final termination, either.

3. Final wire termination, testing and trim - finally, once all surfaces in the home are finished, all wires are properly terminated, trimmed out and tested.

The obvious problem with this approach is that I am terminating the wires twice, which is lots of extra labor.

How do you handle this? Is it possible to terminate the wires during the first inspection/testing phase in a way that doesn't require them to be reterminated?
If it's not simple, it's not sufficiently advanced.
Post 2 made on Monday September 11, 2017 at 01:54
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
Joined:
Posts:
December 2001
29,845
Just as a point of interest, how many bad wires have you exposed this way? It seems overly thorough!

The first "termination" might be simplified, might not. Do a quick punch-down on a female connector or two, then test. You don't mess with a jack panel, you don't waste any male connectors, and it's faster than making permanent connections. It still might be overkill.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 3 made on Monday September 11, 2017 at 09:00
highfigh
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2004
7,895
On September 10, 2017 at 23:25, crosen said...
Typically, when I run structured wiring, the process looks like this:

1. Wire rough-in - this is complete while all walls are open. Once done, all wires are inventoried, but none are tested.

2. Wire inspection/testing - once the wall are up, but before they are painted, all wires are terminated and tested to find wires that were damaged when the walls went up. Unfortunately, the termination is only temporary, because the head end is not ready for patch panels to be mounted and the rooms aren't ready for final termination, either.

3. Final wire termination, testing and trim - finally, once all surfaces in the home are finished, all wires are properly terminated, trimmed out and tested.

The obvious problem with this approach is that I am terminating the wires twice, which is lots of extra labor.

How do you handle this? Is it possible to terminate the wires during the first inspection/testing phase in a way that doesn't require them to be reterminated?

If you have a good idea of the cable lengths, you could use a TDR and test them without terminating as a way to check for shorts & opens, as well as determining actual use for that job. It won't tell you anything about throughput or resolution, but it's not as time consuming and it won't use parts.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 4 made on Monday September 11, 2017 at 09:29
chris-L5S
Senior Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2008
1,026
if you wait until drywall to terminate and do a 1st test, why not wait a little longer and go ahead and do the final trim and test? I will put the plates and/or keystones in a baggie at the wall to protect from paint. At the head-end, for a structured wiring can, it is the final termination. If its a rack, I ask the GC / painter to finish my closet. I may go on and put the rack in the project and leave it empty and cover it, or just leave the patch panel there in a garbage bag. It depends on how many drops are involved.
Post 5 made on Monday September 11, 2017 at 11:33
Mac Burks (39)
Elite Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2007
17,467
On September 10, 2017 at 23:25, crosen said...
The obvious problem with this approach is that I am terminating the wires twice, which is lots of extra labor.

How do you handle this? Is it possible to terminate the wires during the first inspection/testing phase in a way that doesn't require them to be reterminated?

Mentioned above by Chris...At the room end you can put your connectors/keystones on, test, wrap them in plastic and tape. At trim out just unbag them. This isn't always 100% but most of your locations will be fine.

Since your post specifically mentioned labor...In the control room there really isn't anything you can do about it aside from permanently terminating everything to patch panels in a rack or enclosure. But then you have to factor in the labor or cost of all the patch cables you have to make or buy. Then you have to decide whether or not your distribution products (HDMI) will work if your cables aren't continuous from matrix to device.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 6 made on Monday September 11, 2017 at 19:33
cshepard
Advanced Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2008
766
So you terminate & test all wiring twice? Seems if you're running into enough damaged wiring to warrant all that extra time & money, something needs to be addressed with the way you do your rough-ins or the way the drywallers do their job.
Chris
Post 7 made on Monday September 11, 2017 at 20:24
77W
Advanced Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2012
966
On September 11, 2017 at 19:33, cshepard said...
So you terminate & test all wiring twice? Seems if you're running into enough damaged wiring to warrant all that extra time & money, something needs to be addressed with the way you do your rough-ins or the way the drywallers do their job.

Add another wire or two to the run. That'll be cheaper than trimming twice.
Post 8 made on Tuesday September 12, 2017 at 01:27
Mac Burks (39)
Elite Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2007
17,467
For us cable certification is part of the project. It happens before drywall to catch any mistakes we made and after drywall to catch any mistakes they make.

In 20 years we have had maybe 3 projects with 1 bad wire each. Nothing we couldn't work around with extra cable or conduit. I have had plenty of situations where wires got cut short by drywall or cabinet installers. Having the two step testing covers us and we dont have to eat the additional expense of working around it.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
OP | Post 9 made on Tuesday September 12, 2017 at 10:07
crosen
Senior Member
Joined:
Posts:
April 2009
1,262
This is how I would like to do it. You find that you are able to do the termination before drywall?

You mentioned wrapping the room side ends in tape/bags.

On the rack side, it sounds like you don't often use patch panels? Patch panels are actually our preferred method of terminating in the rack for all wire types except the shielded cat6 that we use for video/HDMI.

On September 12, 2017 at 01:27, Mac Burks (39) said...
For us cable certification is part of the project. It happens before drywall to catch any mistakes we made and after drywall to catch any mistakes they make.

In 20 years we have had maybe 3 projects with 1 bad wire each. Nothing we couldn't work around with extra cable or conduit. I have had plenty of situations where wires got cut short by drywall or cabinet installers. Having the two step testing covers us and we dont have to eat the additional expense of working around it.
If it's not simple, it's not sufficiently advanced.
Post 10 made on Tuesday September 12, 2017 at 13:00
Mac Burks (39)
Elite Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2007
17,467
On September 12, 2017 at 10:07, crosen said...
This is how I would like to do it. You find that you are able to do the termination before drywall?

We just do everything twice. We don't try to permanently terminate before drywall. Do i think its possible to do? Yes. Just terminate, wrap cables with heavy duty plastic not a sandwich bag...tape the whole thing up with painters tape and push it in the wallplate/wall.

You mentioned wrapping the room side ends in tape/bags.

On the rack side, it sounds like you don't often use patch panels? Patch panels are actually our preferred method of terminating in the rack for all wire types except the shielded cat6 that we use for video/HDMI.

We use patch panels primarily for cat5/6 & RG6. Everything else wires directly to devices.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps


Jump to


Protected Feature Before you can reply to a message...
You must first register for a Remote Central user account - it's fast and free! Or, if you already have an account, please login now.

Please read the following: Unsolicited commercial advertisements are absolutely not permitted on this forum. Other private buy & sell messages should be posted to our Marketplace. For information on how to advertise your service or product click here. Remote Central reserves the right to remove or modify any post that is deemed inappropriate.

Hosting Services by ipHouse