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Sunbrite Install:Some underground wire code questions and shielded cat 6 alongside power
This thread has 37 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Sunday June 4, 2017 at 11:29
gerard143
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Got a client who wants to do an outside sunbrite tv. It will not be covered by any overhang or roof. Just one a post in the yard.

Going to get an electrician involved but I'm curious what the nec code is on this and opinions on how others would do this.

some details:

Sunbrite makes a post mount [Link: sunbritetv.com] that I will probably use. It has a 1" hole centered in the bottom plate to fish wiring thru it. I figure pour a cement pad with 1" conduit coming up in the center and bolt the post to the pad. Straightforward enough. However....

It would be nice to run power and category cable from the same conduit thru it for a clean install. Which only 1-1" hole I can't run two conduits. Idk of code allows for low voltage and line voltage in same conduit. My guess is no which makes the whole rest of this post a moot point lol. But I'll continue on. I also wonder if nec conduit size requirements would need to be bigger then the 1" hole in the post to stay within maximum conduit fill constraints.

The second part of running the two wires alongside eachother.... If I use shielded cable would I'd have a reliable video signal with the cat 6 running along side power all the way back to the basement for say a 35' run.

My last question involves actually connecting the tv's cord to power. If i fed both wires up thru the post for a clean install not really sure how to breakout a single gauge outlet. There is no cutout in the post for a single gang outlet. I'd rather not install a seperate post just for waterproof outlet. This defeats the whole clean install and being able to fish wires up the tv post.


So does code allow me to run flexible stranded power wire and run it underground thru the conduit then terminate ends? This would be mint. Could fed the one end inside the waterproof access door on the tv and plug in the tv cord there. The other end right to a gfci outlet in the basement.

Something like this.
[Link: southwire.com] I assume even in conduit I'd need a direct burial rating?

Last question.... what about fiber and line voltage in same conduit?


Thanks!

Last edited by gerard143 on June 4, 2017 11:40.
Post 2 made on Sunday June 4, 2017 at 13:29
King of typos
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From what I understand, NEC ends at the outlet. And I don't believe you can mix 120 with CAT5 in the same conduit.

With that said...

Make the TV's power cord the length of the conduit. Run the power cord and CAT5 in the same conduit and plug that in at the end. As long as the power cable and CAT5 has no break in the wire, and the cables are allowed in a conduit... NEC has jurisdiction.

This is left up for interpretation of course.

KOT
Post 3 made on Sunday June 4, 2017 at 13:39
tweeterguy
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I'd use fiber to the TV. That way you don't have to worry about inference from the line voltage going up the pipe plus it will protect your head-end equipment when that wonderful Florida cloud to ground lightning comes along. Also make sure the TV and mount are properly earth bonded as you would with a satellite dish.
OP | Post 4 made on Sunday June 4, 2017 at 13:58
gerard143
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On June 4, 2017 at 13:39, tweeterguy said...
I'd use fiber to the TV. That way you don't have to worry about inference from the line voltage going up the pipe plus it will protect your head-end equipment when that wonderful Florida cloud to ground lightning comes along. Also make sure the TV and mount are properly earth bonded as you would with a satellite dish.

Ya. The cost of a fiber balun i am sure is way up there. I'm afraid to even look. Lol
OP | Post 5 made on Sunday June 4, 2017 at 14:00
gerard143
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On June 4, 2017 at 13:29, King of typos said...
From what I understand, NEC ends at the outlet. And I don't believe you can mix 120 with CAT5 in the same conduit.

With that said...

Make the TV's power cord the length of the conduit. Run the power cord and CAT5 in the same conduit and plug that in at the end. As long as the power cable and CAT5 has no break in the wire, and the cables are allowed in a conduit... NEC has jurisdiction.

This is left up for interpretation of course.

KOT

So what your saying is basically even though it's wire buried underground if it's just plugged into an outlet and not hard wired nec rules don't apply? Kind of like just burying an extension cord and then plugging it into a wall socket? Lol.
Post 6 made on Sunday June 4, 2017 at 15:50
Archibald "Harry" Tuttle
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On June 4, 2017 at 14:00, gerard143 said...
Kind of like just burying an extension cord and then plugging it into a wall socket? Lol.

That is my interpretation also.
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Post 7 made on Sunday June 4, 2017 at 17:06
buzz
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I like the idea of fiber, but unless you are into terminating the ends yourself, the conduit must pass the ends and you must be able to pull the factory ends through the conduit without breaking anything. The FIOS guys routinely pull factory ends through otherwise empty conduit. They first pull a tape that will give an exact length, then fetch an appropriate factory cable from the truck.

You could use two conduits with boxes above the concrete pad, then install an overall "wrap" that is large enough to cover the boxes and the post. You could use a prefab cylinder or have a sheet metal shop roll one for you. Or, depending on the decor, a brick or wood "wrap" might be appropriate.

NEC code or not, I don't think that a power cord extended through the conduit would work out because at some point you may need power at the TV end for something else -- such as power for the CAT BALUN or fiber terminator. This could also be a nice location for a WiFi access point.
Post 8 made on Sunday June 4, 2017 at 18:23
Fins
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If you are pouring the pad, why not run two conduits?
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OP | Post 9 made on Sunday June 4, 2017 at 18:57
gerard143
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On June 4, 2017 at 18:23, Fins said...
If you are pouring the pad, why not run two conduits?

This....

Only a 1" center cutout. I need to get this ordered and see it in person. Probably can just cut the cutout bigger and still maintain strength no prob since it has the base plate and the 3x3 post is just welded to it im sure. Also there is no knockout for a single Gang on the post. With those dimension not sure I could even cut it and fit one in.
Post 10 made on Sunday June 4, 2017 at 19:10
SB Smarthomes
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Celerity makes pre-terminated HDMI over fiber with detachable ends.  I've pulled them easily through 1" conduit and they also make a control box that adds Ethernet, RS-232, USB and IR along with HDMI which might be useful for you?

Cost is inline with a quality HDBT extender.
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OP | Post 11 made on Sunday June 4, 2017 at 19:34
gerard143
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On June 4, 2017 at 19:10, SB Smarthomes said...
Celerity makes pre-terminated HDMI over fiber with detachable ends.  I've pulled them easily through 1" conduit and they also make a control box that adds Ethernet, RS-232, USB and IR along with HDMI which might be useful for you?

Cost is inline with a quality HDBT extender.

i'll def look into this.
Post 12 made on Sunday June 4, 2017 at 19:35
Brad Humphrey
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Doesn't matter about the post, because you can NOT put power and LV in same conduit = PERIOD!
So now you need to pull a 2nd conduit for your LV. If there is a way to bring it up inside the post, then great. If not, then attach it to the outside of the post coming up (paint it if you need it to match better). Might also use metal wiremold instead of round conduit coming up and paint that.

I to would recommend pulling a pre-terminated fiber (that short of run is dirt cheap). Plenty of room left over, so I would pull a 2nd fiber and that cat6 also just for backup. Wouldn't hurt to pull (2) 16/4 speaker as well - you know when he finds it hard to hear and wants to add that outdoor sound bar.
OP | Post 13 made on Sunday June 4, 2017 at 19:50
gerard143
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You guys ever do any special bonding/grounding on these outdoor tv's and mounts kind of like a satellite dish would need or?

Last edited by gerard143 on June 4, 2017 19:58.
Post 14 made on Sunday June 4, 2017 at 20:22
edizzle
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absolutely cut the hole bigger in the bottom of the pole or just add another 1" hole, problem solved!!!
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Post 15 made on Monday June 5, 2017 at 06:53
iimig
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For the record, Nonconductive optical fiber cables can occupy a cable tray or raceway with conductors for electric light, power, and Class 1 circuits.

If you really need to do it with one conduit (and it's being inspected) this is your only hope of doing it that way.
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