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Topic:
Bose Lifestyle speakers with Sonos Connect Amp
This thread has 27 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Friday May 19, 2017 at 11:39
SB Smarthomes
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Looked at a job yesterday with 10 zones of Bose Lifestyle speakers and the client want's to upgrade to Sonos.

All the Bose speakers are drives by Bose SA2 & SA3 amps which would be replaced with Sonos Connect Amps.

I can replace exterior and landscape speakers, but the 7 interior zones all have the little rectangle Bose speakers with two 2" drivers.  Curious to know if anyone has experience with these speakers (see photos) and most importantly if the Bose amp has some DSP that works with these little speakers.

These are very small speakers and some are placed in narrow spots between door/window frames, corners and ceiling beams which is going to make replacing them with a larger more traditional speaker impossible in some areas.

I know they aren't going to sound very good with the Connect Amps (they don't really sound very good with the Bose amps) but the client is just interested in background music with streaming capabilities.

I couldn't find any information on the speakers, but the amps are only rated down to 6 ohm, so from an impedance standpoint, the speakers should at least work with the Sonos Connect Amps.

Any chance one of you has "been there, done that"?







www.sbsmarthomes.com
Santa Barbara Smarthomes
Post 2 made on Friday May 19, 2017 at 12:27
kgossen
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My experience with people trying to use Bose speakers with other amplifiers have all been horrible. I mean the Bose speakers sound like crap WITH a Bose amp, they sound even worse with a different brand of amp.

I know it's just background music, but be wary of marrying this job.
"Quality isn't expensive, it's Priceless!"
Post 3 made on Friday May 19, 2017 at 12:34
Audiophiliac
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Sheesh, if they are ok with it as it is, it surely cannot get any worse when you add the SONOS players. :)

I know there was a guy around here years ago that must have pedaled to the builders, but he was putting in these systems all over. Actually, it would have been the previous version of the system you posted photos of.

But he used the double cubes....surface mounted. And he put the underfloor subwoofers in each zone. It was actually not THAT bad in the few houses I worked in. A lot of rooms would have 4 speakers and a sub. The sound was not terrible. The RF remotes worked well. And it was easy for people to use as long as they stuck to AM/FM and CD.

Let me just say it. Bose is for old farts. :) How many Wave Radios have you seen in houses without anyone over the age of 55? Not that many. I keep telling my boss we need to open a Bose store here in a heavy traffic shopping area. It might feel a bit dirty, but the payoff would be worth it. :)
"When I eat, it is the food that is scared." - Ron Swanson
Post 4 made on Friday May 19, 2017 at 12:53
Impaqt
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Those amps should have Aux inputs. just run Connects into the Aux. the Sonons Connect amps will NOT work properly.
OP | Post 5 made on Friday May 19, 2017 at 13:13
SB Smarthomes
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I know it's not going to be ideal.  Maybe the next step is to install a Connect Amp in one room to demonstrate sound quality to the client (and myself).  This is a vacation home so coordinating when the client is in town could take a while.

Impaqt - The SA3 amps have aux inputs, but these are only installed in 3 zones (other zones have SA2 amps without aux input).  The bigger issue would be operation.  It would be a nightmare to use the Bose remote to turn on the zone, then select the Aux input and then go to the Sonos app to select music.  Then there's volume control... you could lock Sonos to fixed and then use the Bose remote and volume control knobs that are also in each zone for volume but you loose the convenience of volume control through the app.  None of this sounds very applealing!

What's your basis for stating "Sonos Connct amps will NOT work properly"?  Is this just your opinion, or have you tried it before?  These Bose amps seem to work with a variety of different Bose Lifestyle speakers and there doesn't seem to be dip switches or anything else to set specific DSP for each speaker so I don't really think there is any "DSP" magic happening the Bose amps.  From an impedance standpoint it looks like the Bose speakers should work with the Connect Amp too... that was my biggest concern is that they might be 2ohm or some other weird proprietary configuration.
www.sbsmarthomes.com
Santa Barbara Smarthomes
Post 6 made on Friday May 19, 2017 at 13:24
Impaqt
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On May 19, 2017 at 13:13, SB Smarthomes said...
I know it's not going to be ideal.  Maybe the next step is to install a Connect Amp in one room to demonstrate sound quality to the client (and myself).  This is a vacation home so coordinating when the client is in town could take a while.

Impaqt - The SA3 amps have aux inputs, but these are only installed in 3 zones (other zones have SA2 amps without aux input).  The bigger issue would be operation.  It would be a nightmare to use the Bose remote to turn on the zone, then select the Aux input and then go to the Sonos app to select music.  Then there's volume control... you could lock Sonos to fixed and then use the Bose remote and volume control knobs that are also in each zone for volume but you loose the convenience of volume control through the app.  None of this sounds very applealing!

What's your basis for stating "Sonos Connct amps will NOT work properly"?  Is this just your opinion, or have you tried it before?  These Bose amps seem to work with a variety of different Bose Lifestyle speakers and there doesn't seem to be dip switches or anything else to set specific DSP for each speaker so I don't really think there is any "DSP" magic happening the Bose amps.  From an impedance standpoint it looks like the Bose speakers should work with the Connect Amp too... that was my biggest concern is that they might be 2ohm or some other weird proprietary configuration.

I was thinking of the older "Built-Invisible" amps.... After reading through the link you provided, it looks like these are more traditional amps.

Still, I'd be shocked if the bose amps were not heavily equalized for the Bose speakers.
Post 7 made on Friday May 19, 2017 at 13:34
lippavisual
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Bose uses there own DSP settings strictly for Bose Speakers on all amps that I've encountered.

I once had an existing install that i had to service with a TOA Mixer/Amplifier, Bose Amp (not sure of model) and Bose Lifestyle in-ceiling speakers.

Sound was OK at best with the existing setup. Tried removing the Bose Amp from the mix and sound was even worse. Also tried several attempts adjusting the TOA to make them sound better. Nearly impossible, spent too much time on it and decided to just leave it in place. Luckily, they were using the TOA for input switching.

Maybe you could swap the amps out for newer versions, maintaining the specific DSP for the speakers but also adding the aux inputs for every zone. I'm pretty sure the newer amps have an auto-sense trigger to turn on the amps. Or at the very least, leave amps on all the time and just use the Sonos connect for music selection and volume control.
OP | Post 8 made on Friday May 19, 2017 at 13:46
SB Smarthomes
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Thanks for the additional feedback.  Agree that there is at least some equalization going on with the amp... probably high-pass filters to keep from damaging the small Bose drivers.

This installation has three different style Bose speakers including some landscape speakers that I expect have larger drivers so was kind of surprised the amp didn't have some way of defining the speakers.

It's likely possible to swap out some of the speakers with something more conventional, but there are a few areas where there just isn't much room for anything larger.  I'd have to remove each speaker to feel around in the walls and ceiling for framing to see what's possible.
www.sbsmarthomes.com
Santa Barbara Smarthomes
Post 9 made on Sunday May 21, 2017 at 00:31
tomciara
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I see monitor audio has a cpwt140lcr with dual 4" woofers.
Snap used to have something like that. Smaller footprint.

I would be lobbying hard to pull all the Bose speakers.

Every Bose system I've seen/worked on with itty bitty speakers use/require eq. Then they still sound lousy.
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
Post 10 made on Sunday May 21, 2017 at 08:01
buzz
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Page 19 of the manual suggests a path for inserting a Sonos CONNECT into an SA2 (as the SA2's only input). One could probably patch the usual SA2's input through the CONNECT, but you'll need to deal with the dual volume control "war" and the 70ms delay from the CONNECT's Line-In.

Bose amplifier power ON/OFF may be a challenge. There may be a pin in the Bose interface that can deal with power by asserting a voltage.
Post 11 made on Sunday May 21, 2017 at 08:17
MediaImageAV
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Page 26 - Automatic detection of a local source(SA-3 Only). Do you have enough SA-3 to cover the zones where the speakers cant be changed? Sonos Connect to Aux in - auto detect. VCA connection for volume control - either use a bose VCA or determine the resistance, maybe even jump it for max volume.
Post 12 made on Sunday May 21, 2017 at 08:31
Archibald "Harry" Tuttle
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We would punt this job before trying to make a mish-mash of Blows and Sonos sound good.
I came into this game for the action, the excitement. Go anywhere, travel light, get in, get out, wherever there's AV trouble, a man alone.
Post 13 made on Sunday May 21, 2017 at 10:09
Fins
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Also, did you bother to check the impedance of the speakers? Bose has been known to get whacky with the impedance of speakers intended to be paired with their own amps. I have one of the little cubes in the office and it's a 1/2ohm.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 14 made on Sunday May 21, 2017 at 22:03
AMSAudioVideo
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If you end up replacing the speakers, James Loudspeaker makes some awesome choices with 3in drivers.
Post 15 made on Monday May 22, 2017 at 07:24
jrainey
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Those are the AdaptiQ speakers that are essentially a in-wall version of a jewel cube speaker....they are a goofy low impedance and sound like crap with a traditional AVR. I really have never seen them used as DA speakers and the certainly have never been marketed that way. They are designed to be used by the TA-2 or TA-3 surround amplifier
Jack Rainey - Full disclosure...reformed integrator, now mid-Atlantic manufacturers rep for: Integra, Paradigm, Anthem, Parasound, Atlona, LG TV's and Metra Home Theater...among others
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