I am looking for some advice on a reliable, economical lighting control solution. Since I have moved on the commercial side I am going to rip out the Control4 system out of my house and replace it with something I can more easily self-support. This will require replacing the C4 dimmers throughout the house. I have looked at Caseta as it is priced properly for my house but Pico being the solution for 3-way switches is not the most desirable. Obviously there is RA2 which has a more viable keypad option but frankly I think the RA2 product is starting to look pretty dated.

Any ideas of what you guys have done that has worked well will be appreciated. I live with my toughest client so I just want it to look nice and work!

You already have a control 4 lightning control. Spend a couple hours and learn how to program it.

Ya I don't understand your post either. Who cares if you only do commercial work?

We do mostly commercial as well but my house is all decked out with C4.

What's the problem with the C4 install???

Why can't you continue to self-support C4?

Sorry, should have been more specific. I can program C4 so that isn't the issue. The issue is that we are not a C4 dealer and while I can get access to the software through friends in the industry, it is a pain in the rear with the licensing and when there are time you need to call tech support (like now since my app for ipads stopped connecting to the controller) I can't. If it was easy to access those items I would be happy to keep it.

Our company exclusively does commercial so I don't see C4 ending up on our radar any time soon as a product like. When we start seeing bid request from engineering firms with C4 as a spec that may change. Thus, another solution gives me access to hardware and software that I can continually receive service on.

C4 does a lot of commercial lighting and control products. But if you are not a dealer, nor want to get setup as one, then finding another manufacture would be best.

Crestron is big into commercial in both control & lighting. But it doesn't sound like you are looking to get into that kind of investment yet.

Lutron Caseta is absolutely NOT a commercial product. It is a very basic residential system (mind you a very good value system). But is not cutout for the kind of designs needed in most commercial spaces.
Lutron does have lines specific to the commercial industry.
RA2 looking dated? It's a light switch! Maybe you are referring to the keypads. There is quite a selection these days that can work with RA2 as well. I don't think I personally would call any of them 'dated' looking.

If you must remove C4 from your house the obvious answer is Ra2.

Do you just need dimmers and switches, or do you need keypads as well. Also, do you have a lot of strange loads to dim or is your lighting pretty straight forward?

I work for a commercial dealer that is doing $35M+ annually and regularly do Crestron, AMX, and Extron projects but don't want to get into something that is going to require me to go back to our programmers to update and manage as I don't possess the skills to program those solutions myself. At this point I may have a very difficult time going to management to bring in a line that is not typically part of a bid spec, thus the reason that C4 may not be at the front of mind.

For my personal system it is pretty straight forward. For 3-way locations I have been using the C4 3 button keypads. If I had my preference I would do a Vantage system but $200+ scenepoint dimmers don't make a lot of sense in a $300K house. Like I said, I know that RA2 is probably the most appropriate system, just not at all a fan of the look of the keypads.

Have you looked at Crestron Pyng?

I totally understand the concept of wanting to do it yourself. I installed a Lutron HW system in my house and program and maintain it myself. Fortunately Lutron tech support will talk to homeowners about issues.

But for what you are looking at spending to rip it all out and start over, you can pay for a lot of service calls.

If you want dated Keypads, look at UPB.

Just buy composer home edition, it's very simple and gives you 95% of what the Pro version does. You won't be able to add new devices to the system, but you can adjust and program lighting as needed with it.

This is very good reasoning.


I don't see the reasoning here.
Could you say that you have a 65" TV today because TVs have gotten so cheap, but you didn't buy a 65" TV ten years ago because your house cost only $300K? Why does the value of the house decide that you won't or can't have your preference?

There's an apartment we can see from our kitchen window that has about a 70" TV in it. The apartment appears to be a one bedroom little thing. You could argue that the TV is too costly for the apartment, or even too large, but those guys sure do enjoy watching their TV!

Why can't you have your preference? Is it that you can't afford it due to your income? It's sensible for THAT dollar figure to make you choose not to have what you prefer!


It's totally reasonable to choose not to have something you don't like the look of. Why isn't it reasonable to choose your preference, the Vantage system?

Thinking about this some more reminds me that customers are complaining these days that TVs are costing less than their installation.

That is, TVs are now much cheaper than they used to be but labor still costs the same, and people are complaining. The ridiculous solution to this is to charge more for the TV. That meets the objections of the complaint!

Buy the lighting control system that does what you want, not the system that's some percentage of the house's value.

The flaw in your TV analogy is that 65" tv goes with me wherever I may move to with very little capital investment and at no cost in R&R when it comes time to sell this house. A lighting control system is going to add 0.0 dollars to the resale value of this home and unlike many estate home clients, that type feature is not expected in homes of this price range and area. Putting in a Vantage Infusion system to the tune of $7.5-$8K at COST doesn't make sense to me in this house as it will provide zero ROI.

An yes Ernie, myself and tens of thousands of others are enjoying large displays that they would they would have NEVER purchased years ago! I still have an 42"
NEC plasma EDTV in my master bedroom that iirc was $3200 at dealer cost back when it was originally purchased. People in my neighborhood were not spending $5-$6K for 42" plasmas back in 2002.

Berger, this issue isn't with the programming software directly, but that I cannot directly get support from Control4 as I am not an authorized dealer.