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What's nec say about 14/4 in wall speaker wire outer layer stripped distance?
This thread has 50 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 30.
Post 16 made on Thursday May 4, 2017 at 02:11
Ernie Gilman
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If you don't use 14-2, you don't have to carry two boxes of wire to get this done. I've done it both ways. It depended on what I had in stock.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 17 made on Thursday May 4, 2017 at 08:04
highfigh
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In case you can't find the answer, you can eliminate the need to worry about it by running the 14-4 to both speakers with a loop at the first one. Slit the jacket at the first speaker at two points about 6" apart, pull the jacket to separate it, clip the appropriate wires for the first speaker at that point and pull them back to the first slit. Tape the slits. Done. Takes less time than running a second and dealing with the other BS.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 18 made on Thursday May 4, 2017 at 08:58
SWOInstaller
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Why would low voltage wiring be a concern to the electrical inspector? Unless the US rules are different than Canada electrical inspectors here don't want anything to do with low voltage wiring because there isn't enough amperage on the wires to cause bodily harm.

In-wall rated wire is a building code requirement.

To answer how we do it is similar to most other responses, run 14/4 to first speaker, leave a loop and run to the second speaker. Slit the jacket at the first and cut your pair required then place the other pair back into the jacket.

If doing a jump of 14/2 between the two speakers you now have three areas where the connection could go bad. Thinking of it at a troubleshooting standpoint you now have to determine whether the issue is at speaker 1, speaker 2, or the amp, which may require you to remove both speakers from the ceiling/wall to find the problem.

If doing a loop you know that it is a solid wire between the amp and speaker and only requires two areas of concern if needing to troubleshoot.

For us, troubleshooting is usually on our dime (depending on when the installation happened) so the faster it takes us to troubleshoot the system the more money we save.
You can't fix stupid
Post 19 made on Thursday May 4, 2017 at 09:11
Fins
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Yep, the rules are different here than in Canada.

All wiring is subject to the approval of the electrical inspection. That said, in most areas, there is little if any attention paid to the low voltage. Mainly they look to see if it's fire caulked and that someone didn't drill through something they shouldn't have. But some areas are much stricter.

But, the original question is, if you remove the outer jacket, are the inner speaker wires rated for in wall use
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 20 made on Thursday May 4, 2017 at 09:14
King of typos
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On May 4, 2017 at 08:58, SWOInstaller said...
If doing a jump of 14/2 between the two speakers you now have three areas where the connection could go bad. Thinking of it at a troubleshooting standpoint you now have to determine whether the issue is at speaker 1, speaker 2, or the amp, which may require you to remove both speakers from the ceiling/wall to find the problem.

If doing a loop you know that it is a solid wire between the amp and speaker and only requires two areas of concern if needing to troubleshoot.

For us, troubleshooting is usually on our dime (depending on when the installation happened) so the faster it takes us to troubleshoot the system the more money we save.

After reading this... 14/4 with a loop at the first speaker is the best way.

KOT
Post 21 made on Thursday May 4, 2017 at 09:38
3PedalMINI
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On May 4, 2017 at 09:14, King of typos said...
After reading this... 14/4 with a loop at the first speaker is the best way.

KOT

I disagree, and that being said I've done this for 10 years and have never had a crimp cap fail on me. The one time I looped it like swo was saying is the one time I cut the wrong pair and connected the wrong end to the speaker. Couldn't figure it out until I realized what I must of done a few hours later. Had to pull the speaker down and re do that area. And slitting the wire takes more time then not especially because most of the time 14/4 has a fine twist to it (atleast ICE and snap do)

Much easier to strip and crimp at the first speaker because you already have it stripped to connect to the speaker!
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
Post 22 made on Thursday May 4, 2017 at 09:43
Rob Grabon
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On May 3, 2017 at 19:22, Fins said...
Aside from how everyone would do it, does anyone have an answer to the question? Would there be a code violation by stripping back the outer jacket and running the two conductors inside?

Are the inner conductors insulation jacket also marked as to their classification?
If not, then technically not allowed by NEC, contact your AHJ.
Technology is cheap, Time is expensive.
OP | Post 23 made on Thursday May 4, 2017 at 10:18
gerard143
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Ok so next question. What kind of distance will your run 14 gauge.

Look at this chart [Link: faq.yamaha.com]

That's ridiculous. 20 ft on an 8 ohm load.



Beldens chart is a bit more detailed but wow distances are lower then I would have imagined. [Link: belden.com]
Post 24 made on Thursday May 4, 2017 at 10:19
Ranger Home
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Ive never found running 14/4 or 16/4 easier than running each speaker line. Seems way more work to me. But to each his own.
Post 25 made on Thursday May 4, 2017 at 10:48
highfigh
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On May 4, 2017 at 08:58, SWOInstaller said...
Why would low voltage wiring be a concern to the electrical inspector? Unless the US rules are different than Canada electrical inspectors here don't want anything to do with low voltage wiring because there isn't enough amperage on the wires to cause bodily harm.

In-wall rated wire is a building code requirement.

To answer how we do it is similar to most other responses, run 14/4 to first speaker, leave a loop and run to the second speaker. Slit the jacket at the first and cut your pair required then place the other pair back into the jacket.

If doing a jump of 14/2 between the two speakers you now have three areas where the connection could go bad. Thinking of it at a troubleshooting standpoint you now have to determine whether the issue is at speaker 1, speaker 2, or the amp, which may require you to remove both speakers from the ceiling/wall to find the problem.

If doing a loop you know that it is a solid wire between the amp and speaker and only requires two areas of concern if needing to troubleshoot.

For us, troubleshooting is usually on our dime (depending on when the installation happened) so the faster it takes us to troubleshoot the system the more money we save.

Ideally, the current isn't high but here, the National Electrical Code governs conductors and the limits for voltage & current on the cabling. The application determines the level of interest in the inspector(s)- government/military/intelligence applications can be incredibly specific.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 26 made on Thursday May 4, 2017 at 13:22
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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On May 4, 2017 at 08:58, SWOInstaller said...
Why would low voltage wiring be a concern to the electrical inspector? Unless the US rules are different than Canada electrical inspectors here don't want anything to do with low voltage wiring because there isn't enough amperage on the wires to cause bodily harm.

Because they are the Authority Having Jurisdiction and there are rules about low voltage installation. Sometimes they are the A**hat Having Jurisdiction. I mean, think about it: they're government employees! If they decide for some reason to be jerks, there's nothing you can do about it.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 27 made on Thursday May 4, 2017 at 13:26
Fred Harding
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one observation when doing the loop: consider marking a direction flow arrow multiple times, so when you interrupt the first pair of wire, you attach it to the conductors connected to the amplifier.
On the West Coast of Wisconsin
Post 28 made on Thursday May 4, 2017 at 14:32
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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Direction flow marking is a great idea, though I once made a couple hundred dollars just because I was the first of four installers who could envision how the wire had been run. The first three didn't step back and try to imagine how the wire had been run when the walls were open. Once I solved one, the other five or six rooms were totally simple as they were routed the same way.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 29 made on Thursday May 4, 2017 at 14:51
Fred Harding
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Yup. Or, you could look at footage markers.

In either instance, it's more efficient to know.
On the West Coast of Wisconsin
Post 30 made on Thursday May 4, 2017 at 15:51
SWOInstaller
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On May 4, 2017 at 14:51, Fred Harding said...
Yup. Or, you could look at footage markers.

In either instance, it's more efficient to know.

The only thing with footage markers is that you don't think of that until you are on the ladder trying to install the speaker.

When I do a loop I always mark "to amp" with arrows pointing in that direction. Makes it easy to figure out when you are on the top of an 8' ladder and the head end is two floors down in the basement. The last thing you want to do is get your toner out to try and figure out which way the wire is going.
You can't fix stupid
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