Haha well said!!!!

$125 per hour is low. Not to degrade in any way, but most plumbers & electricians are at that amount or higher! It depends where you work, but on the east and west coast, $125 is low. Most likely the person you are sending is not just an installer, but a programmer and someone with knowledge of hvac as well.

T&M with a ballpark estimate not to exceed, and then if it comes in under you charge what it actually is. This way no one is hurt financially.

...and goldenzrule for the win!


This has been true for me since I started estimating jobs twenty years ago. At that time, I had designed and wired more than a dozen retail showrooms with twenty stereo receivers (later 4-channel) and 16 pairs of speakers. I thought I had an idea how much time things would take, but Roddy's rule of thumb appeared!


The liability is much greater than that!
When you replace smoke alarms, you depend on wires that someone else installed. You take responsibility, hence liability, for damage due to fire. Are you in the fire prevention business? Have you inspected every inch of every existing wire run (not possible) to see if, for instance, there's no rodent damage?

The HVAC guys should install and maintain the thermostats. Alarm liability needs to be figured out, and you shouldn't take it on your shoulders.

We have no problem wiring t-stats and really have not had any significant problems from a service point of view over the years. We get jobs because we have learned HVAC wiring pretty darn well and are not afraid to get them done.

I would no more replace a certified life safety device and replace it with that Nest POS than fly to the moon. I would maybe put them in as well as a hardwired smoke, but never instead of. No way no how....

This home was built in 1854. I don't even wanna think about the existing wiring. It's right in my contract about not being liable.

What do you do when they call you at 3 AM because their heat is no longer working?

We learned our lesson on tstats on a job with 7 HVAC zones, but two of the units needed outdoor temp to trigger the high efficient changeover on the heat. We found out about the problem during winter. 5 units worked fine, two blew cool air if the outdoor temp got below 40. To make it worse, the job was 3 1/2 hours away.

Fins, you just offered definitive proof of this.

Especially since when we first installed the t-stats, we tried to get the client's HVAC company to install them and they refused. They did come out and do a walk through with our tech and told him how to hook up the stats.

I won't touch thermostats. Too much to know about the system and too much to go wrong.

When you get a panicked phone call from a client at 12:30 at night on the first freezing night with the no heat call you will never touch them again. (Ask me how i know)

If a client wants to integrate stat I tell them no nests and give them a list of integratable thermostats for their hvac contractor todo.

If funny, my house is tricked out with automation yet i have ZERO desire to automated my thermostat! NONE. No need. Its set on 72 degree 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Never a need to change it. We've never done it for customers either. Maybe its because all new house are spray foam? Just set it and forget it. No worries, no need.

Hell i often forget where my thermostats are even located lol.

I like for my temp to drop a couple degrees at night when I go to bed and warm back up before time to get up. Most of my clients are the same. Although, I've got one that likes the bedroom warmer to sleep then cool down before getting up

+1 to everybody. These are all great answers!

I've really been considering raising my rates as of recent. My mechanic charges $95 an hour. Now, electricians, plumbers, hvac techs,basically any building trade, I feel don't need to know as much about as much as we need to know. Auto mechanics I give credit to, they are the CIs of the auto industry. My guy gets $95 an hour, works in his garage, has his own onsite dumpster, cars get pulled in, get fixed, get paid for, leave. He orders parts, sells parts, they get delivered within 30 minutes of ordering.

I need to charge much more.

As far as stats, I'll put them in, but I call my hvac guy first to make sure I don't mess anything up.

You'll still own it. Forever.

Ya I am def charging more from here on out. Great responses.