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Piano pickup & mini mixer
This thread has 16 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Monday April 10, 2017 at 21:26
cshepard
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We want to tie a player piano into a C4 matrix amp. The only other time I did this, the piano retailer provided & installed everything that was needed. It's my understanding that all we need is a pickup and a mixer to combine the feed from the pickup and the accompanying audio.

We're looking at the Fishman SBT-HP pickup. Anybody have experience with this kind of integration? And can someone recommend a simple small-form-factor mixer that would lend itself to mounting underneath a piano? Thanks in advance.
Chris
Post 2 made on Monday April 10, 2017 at 21:56
highfigh
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I used a couple of Rolls mixers last Summer for a fitness facility and they work well. Low and high impedance in, one stereo in for smart phone and the noise level is decent. No experience with that transducer, but theirs are usually very good.

K&K is another option-

[Link: kksound.com]
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 3 made on Monday April 10, 2017 at 22:19
SammPX
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Barcus Berry 4000 and a Shure SCM262 mixer.
Post 4 made on Monday April 10, 2017 at 23:53
Ernie Gilman
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My experience is with live recording using microphones. I'd be wary of a device intended to pick up vibrations from the structure of the piano, as higher string overtones won't be moving the structure.

However, Barcus Berry has had quite a good reputation for YEARS in this regard; I'd definitely check out different models of their product.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 5 made on Tuesday April 11, 2017 at 08:55
Fred Harding
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Shure SCM262 gets my vote. May want to consider some sort of compressor limiter on the outputs, as consumer equipment may or may not be happy with piano dynamics.
On the West Coast of Wisconsin
Post 6 made on Tuesday April 11, 2017 at 09:31
highfigh
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Or, this-

[Link: audio-technica.com]
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 7 made on Tuesday April 11, 2017 at 10:46
studiocats1
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Every piano I ever recorded or reinforced was done with two high quality mics. If you use one make it good one that can handle high sound pressure levels like these guys.

[Link: akg.com]
Post 8 made on Tuesday April 11, 2017 at 10:59
Fred Harding
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Second that. Fact is, microphone placement in a piano requires skill. You would be well advised to research placement, depending on a number of variables...
On the West Coast of Wisconsin
Post 9 made on Tuesday April 11, 2017 at 11:05
Lowhz
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On April 10, 2017 at 23:53, Ernie Gilman said...
My experience is with live recording using microphones. I'd be wary of a device intended to pick up vibrations from the structure of the piano, as higher string overtones won't be moving the structure.

However, Barcus Berry has had quite a good reputation for YEARS in this regard; I'd definitely check out different models of their product.

The Barcus Berry is a piezoelectric pickup just the same as the Fishman.

I've used a Fishman transducer on my double bass bridge for years. There is no problem with "higher string overtones". You just need to use the Fishman preamp or something else to buffer the very high output impedance of the piezo element.

End user isn't recording the piano, they're playing it through the house. Yes, it would sound better with a couple PZM mics, one over the trademark and one over the bass strings provided it's a grand piano, but the Fishman attached the soundboard works just fine and it won't take repositioning of mics if the lid is opened or closed.
Post 10 made on Tuesday April 11, 2017 at 12:41
studiocats1
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I have integrated many pianos with whole house audio systems over the years so I know what the OP is looking for.

Yes those fishboy $100 mics "work just fine" but reinforcing a <$150K grand piano with one is a god dam travesty IMO.
Post 11 made on Tuesday April 11, 2017 at 15:25
highfigh
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On April 11, 2017 at 12:41, studiocats1 said...
I have integrated many pianos with whole house audio systems over the years so I know what the OP is looking for.

Yes those fishboy $100 mics "work just fine" but reinforcing a <$150K grand piano with one is a god dam travesty IMO.

Who said it's a fine piano? The OP said it's a payer piano and if it's a newer one, it would already have some kind of line output or transducer, most likely

As long as it doesn't sound like the piano equivalent of the Barcus-Berry Hot Dots used in Ovation guitars in the '70s, it should be OK.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
OP | Post 12 made on Tuesday April 11, 2017 at 21:41
cshepard
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Thanks for the input, guys. It's a Yamaha Disklavier but I don't know the exact model. I don't want to get too crazy because 1) it could be that the client only uses this integration once, for his daughter's wedding next month, and 2) we're hoping he has plenty of funds for our services on his lake house project we'll be starting soon.
Chris
Post 13 made on Tuesday April 11, 2017 at 22:23
rr61522
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On April 11, 2017 at 21:41, cshepard said...
Thanks for the input, guys. It's a Yamaha Disklavier but I don't know the exact model. I don't want to get too crazy because 1) it could be that the client only uses this integration once, for his daughter's wedding next month, and 2) we're hoping he has plenty of funds for our services on his lake house project we'll be starting soon.

It's a DKC-800, and I didn't see any pickups or pre-mixed outputs under it Friday when I was looking before you got there.
Post 14 made on Tuesday April 11, 2017 at 22:38
highfigh
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On April 11, 2017 at 21:41, cshepard said...
Thanks for the input, guys. It's a Yamaha Disklavier but I don't know the exact model. I don't want to get too crazy because 1) it could be that the client only uses this integration once, for his daughter's wedding next month, and 2) we're hoping he has plenty of funds for our services on his lake house project we'll be starting soon.

If it's a DKC800, look underneath for a control box. Knowing that it's a Disklavier, or even that it's a Yamaha woild have told me it's already set up for sound and after looking briefly at the manual, I saw that it is, assuming the box is still there.
Look at pg 9.

Here's the manual-

[Link: yamahaden.com]
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 15 made on Tuesday April 11, 2017 at 23:13
rr61522
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On April 11, 2017 at 22:38, highfigh said...
If it's a DKC800, look underneath for a control box. Knowing that it's a Disklavier, or even that it's a Yamaha woild have told me it's already set up for sound and after looking briefly at the manual, I saw that it is, assuming the box is still there.
Look at pg 9.

Here's the manual-

[Link: yamahaden.com]

I read that the other day. The way I read it, the RCA outs are only for the accompaniment, not for the piano sound as well unfortunately, so those outputs would have to be mixed with a pickup.
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