For system use simplicity, it seems customers are heading in this direction with Sonos, BOSE, Samsung soundbars or dig audio feeds back to the AV receiver.

Does it limit true 5.1 from any sources, and are the optical surround sound output modes consistent with all TV manufacturers? Any thoughts about our responsibility to educate our customers about the limitations of this config? My first instinct is, make it simple, most won't notice nor care.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record...I feel the TV should be a monitor only. Want apps? You get a neat little ~99 dollar box that plugs into your video matrix or AVR.

Want reasons? Have fun controlling those built in TV apps 100% reliably via your control system.

More reasons? TV manufacturers don't give a shit about your business and the reliability of your installation. Their updates can and often do break your integration.

tweeterguy has it right. There are masses of different TV models and the only way they can come close to working the same way is to limit them to use as monitors.

You want to use all the inputs of a TV? Then plug in the TV, plug the inputs into the TV, and don't think about all those A/V receiver and surround thingies. They're just too complicated.

It has been shown many times that TV's digital output can be a roll of the dice. Sometimes the output will only do 2ch PCM, other times it will only output 5.1 if the source is a non DD+ or 7.1 format. Other times it might decode everything fine to whatever you need (rare).
This varies from model to model as well as manufacture.

It is something that can possibly work but a professional should never rely on.

I still struggle with why people (including some dealers) can't get it thru their head to just get a $49 or $99 streaming box and velcro it to the back of the TV (or where ever it needs to go).

I'll join the echo -- use TV's as dumb monitors.

I have a secondary but highly used system doing just that. It is where I listen to music with two big floor standing speakers. And I like to watch tv here too. Everything goes to the tv and use it's out into amp. No worry about updates ruining integration as tv is not connected to the network. I have one of the cheap 99 boxes for streaming. No worries there since I don't use it. Music streaming device has not caused any issues.
If you are doing something for a customer, do what you know is right and works. You have to meet there needs, but only if it will work reliably. If they can't work with that, don't do the job. I wouldn't tell my roofer how to arrange shingles, but I would ask for a roof that does not leak.

No sh*t.

I can't believe anyone would ever consider using the TV as an audio switcher. I can see some know-it-all DIYer but come on!

If the AVR has 3 HDMI inputs and the client wants to plug in a $69 streamer for input #4, yes.

I'd agree with that with these provisos --

*He won't get digital surround from the streamer
*if your client is using a remote control system instead of seven individual remotes, the cost of programming that last device into the system will partially offset the cost of an HDMI switch that would expand the AVR's input capabilities.
*More complicated input switching exposes the system to more complicated small and large failures.

First thing I do on a Smart TV is turn off all the "Smart Menus" when there is a control system in place

The next thing you do is be thankful that you did!

Smart TVs are similar to HDMI in that you get the best performance out of them when you beat the holy living crap out of every "feature" that they come with.

I understand your points of view and agree. My question was more focused on your personal experiences that 5.1 has failed.

Some customers are not going to buy a $1000 remote. Period. My question relates to that customer not your business plan to design a bullet-proof system.

If the customer wants or has Sonos, I prefer to be educated on specific limitations not just the theory that it may fail. Thanks guys.

Maybe this experience will help you understand why you shouldn't...


Client is using the old DTV remote on a very simple system that involves the LG LCD, and the DTV box.


I get a call that when they push a button on the remote, they have a black screen and get something on the screen that says: Remote is in the AV1 mode.


I'm sure you know what the client did, and maybe wouldn't mind getting the phone call, but this is a great example of why you should do things in a certain way.


Client no longer has that remote....

How do you introduce that system to your customer?

"I'm in business to provide systems that WORK reliably. I can see how to make your system reliable, but it requires a remote control system that will make all parts work together without you having to guess what to do at any point. Because you are asking for it, I will forego reliability, but only if you agree that you are never to call me outside of business hours to solve problems, and you'll pay me [the going rate] for any and every home visit where I show you... again... what to do when things go wrong. I will reluctantly install a system that will probably give you problems. Please sign here."

You could also tell them that you can write up detailed instructions as to how to use all the factory remotes, and that you must sit with him and go over those instructions to be sure he understands them. And nobody else in the house will know how to use the system. The cost for that will be at least $500 due to the time you'll need to convert button pushes, which you and I can do without thinking, into clear step by step instructions.

Suddenly the thousand dollar remote isn't so far away.