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Commercial Design Questions
This thread has 12 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Friday February 3, 2017 at 12:49
JT Babin
Long Time Member
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June 2016
44
Commercial Mixers w/ Control
Alright, so I'm full of answers for the home and for a lot of commercial applications, but I'm a little out of my comfort zone on this one:

Ice Rink With One Sheet of Ice

Speakers and amps are already existing. Crown Amps, 70V Tannoy Speakers/

Zone's W/ Independent Volume and Mixing:

1. Ice Surface (All Speakers surround and aiming at ice surface)
2. Bleachers (Speakers Mounted above and pointing down at bleachers)
3. Lobby

Inputs:

1. Shure Wireless Mic (XLR, 400' away 3 pair twisted shield)
2. Page Mic (XLR, 40' away)
3. Cable Box (Music)
4. Aux Input from scorebox (400' away, RG-6 Mono, unbalanced)
5. Aux Input at front desk (40' Away, RG-6 Mono, unbalanced)
6. Airplay (Airport express, unbalanced)

Mixing Capabilities:

1. Master Volume
2. Independent Source Volume for Mix
3. No Real Mixing Required for Lobby, Maybe ducker for page but not necessary

What I've done in the past is used TOA-MK900 with the various input cards, which worked really well, but obviously unless you know how to use the system it's impossible to use. I've done this at 3 other ice rinks that were more of a rework than an overhaul. I'm going to be looking for a similar mixer to this.

Ideally I could use 3 separate mixers that work with a stand alone app with cool sliders for mixing, the ability to default to a set value when powered down for the night. The ability to mute sources that are inactive would be good too (Hot Mic Input)

If I can't find something with a standalone app, I'm open to using URC Products, MAYBE RTI, but since I don't often program RTI I would prefer not to. Elan is my ultimate choice but it's not good for this application.

Any recommendation? Sorry, I know this is "Home" A/V but I didn't see another section.

EDIT: Prefer all rack mountable.
James Babin - System Designer (https://myeasytek.com)
Post 2 made on Friday February 3, 2017 at 13:19
Fred Harding
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
October 2001
3,456
What do your suppliers recommend? There are many options available...

If you need a competent supplier, my favorite can certainly assist and come up with excellent solutions.
On the West Coast of Wisconsin
Post 3 made on Friday February 3, 2017 at 20:19
lippavisual
Senior Member
Joined:
Posts:
December 2007
1,458
Ya there are many ways to skin this cat.

You'd be better off with an audio dsp and power amps for the speakers.

Do you have any experience with dsp's?? If you don't, you may want to sub this out and watch and learn. Best thing for you and the customer.
Post 4 made on Friday February 3, 2017 at 22:09
cma
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2003
3,044
The DBX Zone Pro units are pretty nice. All configurable via software/laptop.
Post 5 made on Friday February 3, 2017 at 23:04
Dave in Balto
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
January 2008
2,771
On February 3, 2017 at 22:09, cma said...
The DBX Zone Pro units are pretty nice. All configurable via software/laptop.

Look at the specs, if Dbx zonepro can handle your needs, then there you go. RTI has a driver, works well once you figure it out, I couldn't get the volume to ramp reliably though. Pretty sure they have the larger unit that has enough inputs and outs to handle this, their in wall controllers aren't sexy, but stupid simple for source and volume.
Hey, careful man, there's a beverage here!

The Dude
Post 6 made on Saturday February 4, 2017 at 09:03
lippavisual
Senior Member
Joined:
Posts:
December 2007
1,458
Not a fan of DBX. Try Symetrix, Biamp or ClearOne, much easier to deal with.
Post 7 made on Sunday February 5, 2017 at 17:21
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
Joined:
Posts:
December 2001
30,104
Great fan of dbx zonepro.
What is your scope of work?
*to try to make the three speakers they have, each 8 ft above the ice, fill the rink?
*to balance out the 14 spkrs they have, each 12 ft above the ice?
That is, please share with us what's there now. The level of detail with which we can respond is directly related to the information you provide.

Is there enough power now? That is, why did they call you? To solve what? It doesn't seem possible that they have only the amps and speakers. Maybe what they have can be improved instead of replaced.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 8 made on Monday February 6, 2017 at 08:58
lippavisual
Senior Member
Joined:
Posts:
December 2007
1,458
DBX's protocol is horrid. How is it that people like a product that has flakey ramp commands for volume? If you use just presets, fine, it works good. But if you need full control, good luck.
Post 9 made on Monday February 6, 2017 at 12:53
GotGame
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2002
4,022
I agree with lippavisual. Surprised DBX have not offered a firmware to fix or alternative for adjustable volume.

The TOA MK9000M2 would work with preset keypads.
It will take a lot of time to work out your settings, as the DSP is not easy to navigate.

My favorite would be Symetrix or Biamp. with net and keypad control.
I may be schizophrenic, but at least I have each other.
Post 10 made on Wednesday February 15, 2017 at 16:11
bennettavi
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2003
675
+1 on the symetrix Jupiter in this situation. I have found that once setup, the system is relatively maintenance free.
Post 11 made on Wednesday February 15, 2017 at 21:09
TouchCommander
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
December 2004
602
Vote for DCM-1 by Cloud
No job to small, many to big
Post 12 made on Thursday February 16, 2017 at 09:37
Gman
Select Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2009
2,243
On February 15, 2017 at 16:11, bennettavi said...
+1 on the symetrix Jupiter in this situation. I have found that once setup, the system is relatively maintenance free.

+2
Post 13 made on Thursday February 16, 2017 at 22:41
Cams
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
January 2006
485
If you are going with RTI as the control system, DBX, BBS and Ashly would be your best choice...
We have several jobs with RTI\DBX combo and they been up for years.. A third party dev. has a ashly driver thats rock solid with a true 2 way driver.. they use it for all there RTI commercial locations (nation wide)

If you need any help programming, let me know !!


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