yes I am sorry I misspoke due to my lack of knowledge in the electrician field but I did mean a 20 amp dedicated circuit (which I have always been led to believe just meant they run heavier gauge romex and use a bigger breaker to accommodate the number of things plugged into the surge protector.

Why not have an electrician run a 14/3 or 12/3 wire to the closet. Then install a duplex with the "hot side" tab removed. At the panel, install a dual 15amp breaker, or whatever it's called, so that each leg is 15amps and the breaker can trip both at the same time.

Of course you'll now need two surge protectors in the closet. But at least now you'll be deciding the power between two legs.

KOT

I just did a quick search. But it looks like the Canadian electric code only changed the amp capacity for 14awg for motor control. Not the receptacle circuits.

But please by all means look into this.

[Link: electriciantalk.com]

KOT

View that power strip's plug. Shape and location of those prongs define it as a NEMA 5-15. It designed for up to 15 amps. NEMA 5-15 wall receptacles may be on a 20 amp circuit. But that power strip is still only 15 amps. (And must include a 15 amp circuit breaker)

15 amps is massive power for any appliance. So multiple appliances are powered from a 15 amp or 20 amp circuit - safely.

Why run a dedicated 20 amp circuit? Are any plugs on any appliance a NEMA 5-20? Those are shaped differently.

Or do what all layman are expected to do. Read a label on each appliance. Add each amperage number. How many maximum amps will each device consume? Consumers are expected to do this. Then it becomes obvious when too many devices might be excessive power for one circuit.

KOT, the double breaker is an excellent mechanical idea, but often when noise problems arise, it's recommended that we be sure all devices are on the same phase. This idea flues in the face of that by actually ensuring that devices will be on both phases.

The advantage of your idea is that all devices die if any device blows a breaker. So let's ask: what's the drawback if only some of the devices go off when a breaker blows? Maybe the thing to do is to bring out two 15A circuits on the same phase.

As I stated earlier, unless you have devices that require a 20A circuit, my guess is that the 15A Surge Suppressor is doing its job and protecting itself and the devices connected to it. Adding more available amperage to the circuit won't stop the 15A surge suppressor from doing its job at 15Amps.

First thing you should do is a power calculation for all devices. This will tell you the required amperage for the system. You can only load a circuit to 80% so if you are close to the 12A total then you need to decide on one of the two options below.

Then you have two options from there:

1. Upgrade the circuit to be 20A also requires you to upgrade the surge suppressor to be 20A meaning it needs a 20A receptacle.

2. Add another 15A circuit and another 15A surge suppressor and split your power (ensuring the amps are on separate surge suppressors).

This isn't just for Layman. This should also be something that you as a professional are doing as well. You are the one requesting number of circuits and circuit size to the electrician, do you ever perform power calculations for systems that you are installing? How do you know how many circuits you require from the electrician or the number of amps you require?

Say your total was 15A. Would you request one 20A circuit, two 15A circuits, or would you tell the electrician that your total is 15A? Would he pull one 20A circuit or two 15A circuits? This makes a difference in how you design your system as you need to know if you are installing two 15A or one 20A surge suppressors.

A quick internet search brings up the following required amperages:
Sonos Connect Amp - 2A
Denon X2300 AVR - 4A
Crestron C2N-AMP-6x100 - 5A

I'm sure that if I performed the actual power calculation for rbhfan that he would be exceeding the maximum of 12A for a 15A circuit.

You are responsible for informing the electrician the total amps required for your system and whether you want it supplied in 15A or 20A. If you tell him you only need a single 15A circuit and then at time of finish you keep tripping a breaker or something similar to rbhfan, call the electrician to fix the issue and he does a power calculation and comes up with more than 12A who is paying for him to change everything to accommodate all this amperage?

For the most part you as an installer are using the same amps, receivers, and control systems. knowing their required amps is necessary and should be something that you have quick access to when doing the system design to ensure you are providing the proper information to the electrician.

First know what that surge protector is doing and using basic (layman) electrical knowledge. It cuts off power when a load exceeds 15 amps. That number defined by a circuit breaker. If it does not have that circuit breaker, then the Monster must be removed for serious human safety reasons.

A layman is expected to add those appliance current numbers - as stated previously. A layman is responsible for doing addition.

If that Monster is doing its job, its job is to disconnect protector parts as fast as possible. Leave a surge still connected to appliances. Since tiny joules protectors (ie the Monster) can create fire if protector parts do not disconnect fast enough.

Protector circuits do not disconnect power. That circuit breaker, that must even exist on $10 power strips, disconnects power from appliances.

Meanwhile, consumers who want to protect appliances from surges, do not waste $100 on near zero Monster products. Instead, an informed consumer spends about $1 per protected appliance for something completely different that actually claims to provide transient protection. To even protect from direct lightning strikes.

A tripped Monster 15 amp breaker is the warning that a consumer made a serious mistake; did not add numbers for the attached appliances. That circuit breaker must trip irregardless of a 15 amp or 20 amp wall receptacle. Shape of its plug defines how much current it was designed to consume. That Monster must not try to provide more than 15 amps. Even its plug (NEMA 5-15) says so.

Westom,

Why do you keep saying that this is the consumers fault for not performing the proper power calculations to determine whether they are drawing too much?

From my understanding RBHFAN supplied and installed the equipment stated in his original post. He is not the consumer and the consumer (his customer) wouldn't have known what devices he was installing so couldn't perform this proper power calculation.

To me it should have been up to RBHFAN to do this power calculation and provide that information to the electrician/home owner to inform them of required power needed for this installation.

Westom always has a lot of information to provide, but even I, Mr. Literal, have learned that when he says something he does not mean exactly and literally that; he means the installer (who is a customer somewhere, after all) or someone should have done these calcs.

He leaves out a lot of details and phrases things so I, at least, often have trouble following what he means. He's trying to be helpful, though, while being at least as didactic as I am.

Then both RBHFAN and the consumer should do that addition. It is what every layman can do. If one does this a few times, then what is and is not excessive power becomes obvious. Bottom line - if a fault exists, a human created it.

Move on. How does that power strip cut off power? Protector circuits do not do that. A circuit breaker (to protect from human mistakes) does that. Did a circuit breaker trip? Stated was:

What was cut off and what was done to restore power? A vague description means a reply cannot be specific. Replies are only as specific as facts first provided.

Why would an outlet "shut down" - an extremely vague and deceptive expression? It might be worn out (defective). Other reasons might exist - including and not limited to a circuit breaker. But protector circuits did not cut off power.

Does not matter if that circuit or wall receptacle is 15 amps or 20 amps. That power strip can only provide up to 15 amps. Obvious when first stated with reasons why everyone should know it. Is that basic layman concept still confusing or unknown?

Also layman simple: a safety ground does nothing for appliance operation. That safety ground protects human life. If ground is missing, an appliance still operates normally.

Surge protector circuit does nothing to control power. Surge protector circuit can do nothing or completely fail - and power is still supplied to an appliance.

Does a power outage or neutral wire create this defect? A simple diagnostic tool answers that. Connect an incandescent bulb to that power strip. Does that light remain on? Then power is good. Does light change intensity? If yes, then a serious wiring problem exists - maybe in a wall receptacle or wires inside walls. More facts necessary so that replies are not vague - or in some cases only wild speculation.

These concepts and experiment only require a layman' grasp of electricity. Without more facts, replies cannot be more specific.

Ernie - when you say

does that mean we are blowing smoke?

Oh, my! This sounds like part of my signature!

I just realized that westom's writing sometimes uses sentence fragments to get ideas across. Just like Trump:

If that were followed by "Huge!" it could be a Trumpism!


Ah hell: there's my signature again!


(quotes my typo when I wrote "flues" instead of "flies.")

Finally, something funny! Westom, that's pretty good!

How do we know that? If a typo, then also stated is why it was a typo. Then everyone would know it was a typo because reason why was also provided.

An engineer always needs reasons why with numbers. An English major will take you word for it.

Just for clarification. I did not sell or install the equipment. I was called in after the fact to look at a problem with surge protector.

I did not mean to have the new line ran to increase the available voltage. The electricians I have dealt with in the past don't seem to be concerned with trouble shooting as long as the outlet does have power. I was suggesting the new line to circumvent the possible problem with the old one. A new line could be ran in less than an hour and it might be cheaper than trying to trace down any existing problems with current circuit. And if it simplifies the outrage and discussion let's just take the 20 amp idea right off the table. a dedicated 15 amp circuit

Someone still has to perform the power calculations for the equipment. Since you know all the equipment that is installed a quick google search for the spec sheet of each device should provide you with the power requirements for them. Some devices will tell you the amperage and others will tell you the wattage, in either case it will provide you with the maximum requirements. Provide this information to the electrician (they can do the wattage to amperage calculations) prior to them going to site so they can determine the best solution. My guess would be two dedicated circuits will be required and in doing so you will also have to supply the customer with a second surge suppressor to accommodate the second circuit.