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Topic:
experience with new Sonos "sanctioned" drivers?
This thread has 57 replies. Displaying posts 31 through 45.
Post 31 made on Thursday January 12, 2017 at 03:46
Audiophiliac
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I am perfectly fine selling SONOS as a music solution even if it is not tied into the control system. Having it in the same app as your cameras and hvac is not that critical unless you sell it as such. Our younger clientele are much less concerned about having all their subsystems controlled by a single UI or app that only gives them partial control and/or feedback compared to what the native apps give them.

Exciting times for sure.
"When I eat, it is the food that is scared." - Ron Swanson
Post 32 made on Thursday January 12, 2017 at 09:58
mark65
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As a business owner I would never sell an unsupported anything to a client without some written and signed paperwork to cover my ass. Additionally we have a clause in our contract and warranty statement that says we are not responsible for what third-party service providers do. Every vendor has told every dealer for the past 10 years that Sonos is not willing to support integration. Dealers said screw that, I'm gonna do it anyway. Now they're upset because they made a bad business decision. It's the same with guys controlling AppleTVs using IP. Eventually it's going to stop working. In Sonos' case it will be in April for all unsupported integration.

So back to Julie's original question...
We have never integrated Sonos with a control system. We have always used either Autonomic or Fusion depending on the platform. Sonos, although it doesn't make us a whole lot of money, is an option for clients being budget conscious. For us, we view the Sonos as a great music source for entry level systems. So now when I do a 4 zone Crestron system, my music server isn't half the cost of the entire system. Moreover, I now have a complete Crestron foundation installed in said customer's house ready to support future add-ons.

As stated above, the current functionality of the supported API is sufficient for today's generation of buyers. These are clients who don't own music...they stream it. Twenty favorites for most people is more than enough. I have about 60 Pandora stations, but only listen to about 5 of them. I have the entire SiriusXM service available, but I only listen to 3 channels. There's only 2 local radio stations I listen to. So the twenty favorite limit isn't a big deal. If it is, that's why Crestron let's you jump back and forth into the Sonos app on the new touchpanels, iOS and Android. If your customer has a large CD collection or iTunes library, or if you now have a personal vendetta against Sonos, then sell them a real music server solution.
Post 33 made on Thursday January 12, 2017 at 10:37
Audiophiliac
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I am not upset with SONOS, Spotify, or Control4 about any of this. It is just life. We deal with it and move on like anything else. If you have read these forums about Fusion, Autonomics, and other music streaming devices, you would find far more complaints/issues with hardware, software, support, etc. than you ever will with SONOS. It is bulletproof.

To your point about "unsupported anything", I understand your sentiment, but in reality, it has never been a big issue. And now there IS a supported solution. It just so happens that the unsupported solution works far better than the supported one, which contradicts your sentiment. :)

We sell stuff all day long that we know will fail at some point. Most of the electronics we install today will not live to see 10 years, whether it breaks or becomes obsolete. We have enjoyed SONOS for over a decade and no one was able to match their product in terms of reliability, ease of deployment, ease of use, content availability, etc. Every control company has integrated or at least tried to integrate with it even though it was not endorsed by SONOS, because it was and still is the best option out there in its class.

If SONOS does not integrate well with others moving forward, you have 2 options. Use it in its limited integration, use something else that integrates more, or do not integrate it into your control systems, and rely on the SONOS app for control. Pros and cons to each of those options, but the one that is right for your application is the correct one, and that could change depending on the project.
"When I eat, it is the food that is scared." - Ron Swanson
Post 34 made on Thursday January 12, 2017 at 13:09
tweeterguy
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FYI in advance of what some may be wondering...the favorites limit in Sonos is 32. That's their limitation/policy; again, outside the control of your preferred third party control system.
OP | Post 35 made on Thursday January 12, 2017 at 15:50
juliejacobson
CE Pro Magazine
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So the other question is: Do the other home-control systems with Sonos workaround-integration still work? Or did Sonos disrupt their communications protocols to disable the unsanctioned integrations? Anyone using Roomie Remote, Irule, etc.?
"CEPro: your website sucks!" - Fins
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[Link: twitter.com]
Post 36 made on Thursday January 12, 2017 at 16:02
FP Crazy
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I use the unsanctioned integration with Elan G on my system every day. It's OK, sometimes a little slow....But it works, is limited, but works reasonably well. It has survived numerous Sonos updates, that has not killed any functionality as far as I can tell. I do Internet radio, SiriusXM, Pandora (rarely), music library, favorites, Playlists and Deezer. I don't use Spotify. Transport controls work well too.

But I frequently use the Sonos app on my iPad too, especially for more robust usage.

I would consider myself a power user. I personally use my Sonos system, every day...and would be pissed if someone stole it. I like to play and listen to music

My .02
Chasing Ernie's post count, one useless post at a time.
Post 37 made on Thursday January 12, 2017 at 16:02
BlackWire Designs
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On January 12, 2017 at 15:50, juliejacobson said...
So the other question is: Do the other home-control systems with Sonos workaround-integration still work? Or did Sonos disrupt their communications protocols to disable the unsanctioned integrations? Anyone using Roomie Remote, Irule, etc.?

When it comes to Spotify its literally broken for everyone. Spotify told sonos to change how it works so Sonos its self no longer supports anything other than favorites.

Lets say you have a nice touch screen in the kitchen and a friend is like hey lets play this or check out my playlist. Before you could type in and search and browse. Now you have to open the Spotify and Sonos app on your phone to set things up.

Its the opposite of automation. Its a joke
BlackWire Designs
Post 38 made on Thursday January 12, 2017 at 16:11
mark65
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On January 12, 2017 at 15:50, juliejacobson said...
So the other question is: Do the other home-control systems with Sonos workaround-integration still work? Or did Sonos disrupt their communications protocols to disable the unsanctioned integrations? Anyone using Roomie Remote, Irule, etc.?

As of right now they should all still work. April is the targeted month for disruption.
Post 39 made on Thursday January 12, 2017 at 16:59
Cmshapiro
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So Sonos no longer works well as an inexpensive source. C4 has some built in streaming services, and you can now add an Autonomic server for not a ton of money and get Spotify, is it really that big of an issue?
OP | Post 40 made on Thursday January 12, 2017 at 17:20
juliejacobson
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On January 12, 2017 at 16:59, Cmshapiro said...
So Sonos no longer works well as an inexpensive source. C4 has some built in streaming services, and you can now add an Autonomic server for not a ton of money and get Spotify, is it really that big of an issue?

The big issue is the disruption to existing customers that are used to all these services that have been yanked.

Dealers have always been warned: don't do unsanctioned integrations. But they do, and it stings. Some lessons for all, I suppose.

Do you guys plant expectations? Like: It works now but ... ?
"CEPro: your website sucks!" - Fins
www.cepro.com
[Link: twitter.com]
Post 41 made on Thursday January 12, 2017 at 17:46
techvalley
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Are we going to see the same backlash if the Kodi apps stop working?
"try to become not a man of success, but try rather to become a man of value."
Post 42 made on Thursday January 12, 2017 at 18:51
oprahthehutt.
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Sonos integration is a joke, it was unwise to ever offer this as an option, even when it worked.

We should all be talking with our clients about avoiding Spotify, the only way they change their tune is if we as an industry actively sway our collective clients to their competitors that work with us.

Denon HEOS should be putting all of their effort into satisfying the Custom Integration Channel and making the 3rd party API the best in the industry. There is a massive opportunity for them and they are in a Hotel Room in Russia pissing it away!
Post 43 made on Thursday January 12, 2017 at 18:58
Audiophiliac
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I am not sure I understand your point Julie. Yeah, you have warned us against using unsanctioned SONOS drivers. But the fact is that they worked. And they worked well. Having SONOS pull the legs out from under that table is a disappointing thing for sure, but it is hardly something to point the finger and say "told you so" at. Just another bump in the road....a road that has never had many long smooth stretches, as you all know if you are not a complete noob. :P

At least they have offered a sanctioned API. They could have much more easily not done so and left us completely boned. And surely it will be improved as time goes on. I had not heard that there would be a sunset on the existing unsanctioned drivers. Is that an official word from SONOS? Does anyone know if that will effect the Sony AVR/SONOS integration?

Having to wean customers into using the SONOS app, or selling them another streaming box, is pudding compared to some of the other industry shenanigans we have faced over the years. Remember when AMX bought Phast and ceased selling product and supporting dealers? Remember when Apple changed the connector on the iPod/iPhone immediately obsoleting literally millions of docks, a lot of which were installed by many members of this forum? Remember when Crestron tried to initiate warranties on ship date from their warehouse instead of our sell date and we all sent all our stock back to them? (oh you did not do that?....eventually they realized how dumb that was and recanted). Remember when HDMI?

The point is that this is not a big deal. I posted elsewhere that I predict a volatile future for our niche industry. It will be interesting. The perceived value of the "complex and expensive" systems we are installing today will wane in the eyes of the upcoming generation of those who will be our future clientele. It will be up to us to adapt, not force them to accept our "antiquated traditions". :)
"When I eat, it is the food that is scared." - Ron Swanson
Post 44 made on Thursday January 12, 2017 at 20:30
dunnersfella
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On January 12, 2017 at 18:51, oprahthehutt. said...
Denon HEOS should be putting all of their effort into satisfying the Custom Integration Channel and making the 3rd party API the best in the industry. There is a massive opportunity for them and they are in a Hotel Room in Russia pissing it away!

The D&M guys are busy chasing Alexa... which, really is a play from an on-line retailer who wants you to buy things directly off them - not through bricks and mortar stores OR an integrator!
This industry is not getting cheaper and cheaper, we're simply convincing ourselves that we have to push the cheapest option to customers.
#makesonosgreatagain
Post 45 made on Thursday January 12, 2017 at 21:48
faster48
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On January 12, 2017 at 16:11, mark65 said...
April is the targeted month for disruption.

where did you hear this?? I've spoken to my Sonos rep and C4 multiple times and both have said there is NO current plan to go back and break the current drivers. If you have real info you should definitely let us know
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