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Topic:
RTI Alternatives
This thread has 94 replies. Displaying posts 46 through 60.
Post 46 made on Monday December 26, 2016 at 16:20
KeithDBrown
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On December 26, 2016 at 13:02, goldenzrule said...
In what scenario have you seen that response, and with what TC interfaces?

We had an MRX-10 (I believe) with the 780-ish remote as a demo system, where it seemed to drag compared to Elan, or even a CC remote. Similar setups in a few jobs that we took over, all used as A/V controllers only. No climate control, lighting, etc. All of this prior to 2016, haven't been back to those jobs, so I assume they have been working just as expected.

I assume that is has improved significantly?
Post 47 made on Monday December 26, 2016 at 17:09
Ernie Gilman
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On December 25, 2016 at 17:25, KeithDBrown said...
While true, I wouldn't sell it to a client personally, just like I wouldn't sell a SR-150 if I was a C4 dealer. I'm sure it works for some situations, but it feels like lateral move from the remote that comes free with a DTV receiver.

It's been my observation since the first Pronto controlled a TiVo that the TiVo remote (and later the DirecTV remote, and many cable remotes) could be learned to operate by touch. Our spiffy programmable remotes can't. A touchscreen can't be operated strictly by touch, which sounds like an oxymoron: you have to look at it to verify you touch it in the right place. The Pronto and later remotes required some kind of change to move from transport to menu control.

Does anybody make a remote that actually matches the avid TV watcher's experience with the DirecTV remote? That is --
*transport controls all in one area
*cursor pad on the same overall space, that is, you don't have to switch screens or anything to move from transport control to menu control
*color buttons -- many have them, but it's a must nowadays
*custom buttons like the 8 seconds back button
*numbers keypad

I didn't even include numbers in that list when I wrote it because it never occurred to me that a remote might exist that doesn't have them.

On December 26, 2016 at 13:04, roddymcg said...
A good way to kill bulb life...

One of the first experiences I had with a projection system was seeing the Pioneer Laserdisc's STOP burned in at the top left of the screen!
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 48 made on Monday December 26, 2016 at 19:51
radiorhea
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[URL=[Link: s1285.photobucket.com]][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
Drinking upstream from the herd since 1960
Post 49 made on Monday December 26, 2016 at 20:21
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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That's why I generally don't even remember the term Universal Remote Control. That, and that's a brand, not an item. Instead I call them integrated remotes. Not like the universe is integrated, but anyway....
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 50 made on Monday December 26, 2016 at 23:01
pilgram
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On December 25, 2016 at 10:34, Fins said...
The g1 comes with an IR remote. Retail, around $700

I think the IR remote is a step backwards into the 90's.

The processor works.

Too bad you have to point the clumsy remote at the IR receiver.

I've installed a few but never really felt proud about it!

I certainly wouldn't put them in MY house!

My wife would kill me after being use to rf and IP remotes!

Not to mention that the remote looks like a $4 dollar remote that came with a cheap DVD player in the 90's!
Every day is a good day.......some are just better than others!
Post 51 made on Tuesday December 27, 2016 at 00:40
Mogul
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On December 22, 2016 at 12:16, oprahthehutt. said...
Well lets see

1. Firmware
2. Software (bigger systems)
3. Lead times on product development
4. Tech support
5. General feeling of impending doom
6. Iffy remote access
7. Very Expensive remotes that wear very fast
8. Charging cradles now take 2 hands vs before just not working
9. Did I mention lead times?

I can wholeheartedly agree with 3/9 and 8, but none of the others. I have very large, complex systems, some in commercial settings, that have been reliably online for years with zero issues. My RTI start post-dates the lead-free-solder-induced white screen failures and early battery problems, but I have T2C+, T3V and T2X remotes that have been in heavy use by families with young kids for years of durable service. They also offer a reasonable upgrade path for remotes that cannot be serviced. Charge docks have been less than stellar, but RTI has generally warranted and replaced them. If you don't like the remotes, you can deploy an iPad interface.

As for the MX-810, Tom, I should clarify that I deployed the (then brand new) 810's for use with the MSC400...URC explicitly advertised the 810 to be fully compatible with that processor despite its horrific "wizard" programming interface but was not in practice. I appealed all the way to URC's VP of Engineering for relief but they left me hanging, so I moved on.

Bottom line, every control system has its weak points and strong points...RTI is in no way the worst of the bunch, IMHO. Pick your poison.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." [Sir Henry Royce]
Post 52 made on Tuesday December 27, 2016 at 09:58
radiorhea
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On December 27, 2016 at 00:40, Mogul said...
I can wholeheartedly agree with 3/9 and 8, but none of the others. I have very large, complex systems, some in commercial settings, that have been reliably online for years with zero issues. My RTI start post-dates the lead-free-solder-induced white screen failures and early battery problems, but I have T2C+, T3V and T2X remotes that have been in heavy use by families with young kids for years of durable service. They also offer a reasonable upgrade path for remotes that cannot be serviced. Charge docks have been less than stellar, but RTI has generally warranted and replaced them. If you don't like the remotes, you can deploy an iPad interface.

As for the MX-810, Tom, I should clarify that I deployed the (then brand new) 810's for use with the MSC400...URC explicitly advertised the 810 to be fully compatible with that processor despite its horrific "wizard" programming interface but was not in practice. I appealed all the way to URC's VP of Engineering for relief but they left me hanging, so I moved on.

Bottom line, every control system has its weak points and strong points...RTI is in no way the worst of the bunch, IMHO. Pick your poison.

I agree that you pick your poison. I have stuck it out with RTi over the years because of Integration Designer. I have plenty of remotes out there still doing their job. Most of my clients have "moved on" to iPad minis and their iPhones. They love them and agree that it is way easier if they drop one. It is going to happen. Their kids use Ipads and are very comfortable controlling the system with it.
APEX brings and new set of challenges. If RTi abandons ID then I will have no choice but to move on. I will not support that fiasco. I have put way too much time into ID and have an easy and simple interface for my clients with feedback. All RTi needs to do is improve the graphics selection and IP drivers list. If they spent their time on THIS instead of trying to fix what is NOT broke, they would allow us and them to make money, service our clients, and continue down a great path.
Drinking upstream from the herd since 1960
Post 53 made on Tuesday December 27, 2016 at 10:02
goldenzrule
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On December 27, 2016 at 00:40, Mogul said...

. They also offer a reasonable upgrade path for remotes that cannot be serviced. .

In my experience, this is absolutely not true. When the T2C+ I ordered and programmed that came with a defect out of the box, RTI did nothing because they disco'd the T2C+ already and had bo replacements. The T2X was, I beleive ~6 months out from being released. We were left high and dry.
Post 54 made on Tuesday December 27, 2016 at 10:28
Impaqt
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C4 covers what you need. Not sure where you got the idea that the SR260 didnt have Numeric keys. It certainly does.

It does REQUIRE a solid network if your going to any sort of network based control. That should go without saying. Most jobs I take over due to people firing their old installers are systems where the network needed significant attention.

Linksys spaceship routers are the devil.

Where the keys are located on the remote.. Who cares. You get used to what you use. You NEED icon based channel favorites, whip out your phone or get a tablet. Its costs NOTHING extra to use a Tablet or phone on the system. It doesnt even take up any programming time.

For $600 in hardware, there's simply nothing else in the market that does what it does.
I'm no engineer, but I did stay at a Motel 6 last night!
Post 55 made on Tuesday December 27, 2016 at 18:01
goldenzrule
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On December 27, 2016 at 10:28, Impaqt said...
C4 covers what you need. Not sure where you got the idea that the SR260 didnt have Numeric keys. It certainly does.

It does REQUIRE a solid network if your going to any sort of network based control. That should go without saying. Most jobs I take over due to people firing their old installers are systems where the network needed significant attention.

Linksys spaceship routers are the devil.

Where the keys are located on the remote.. Who cares. You get used to what you use. You NEED icon based channel favorites, whip out your phone or get a tablet. Its costs NOTHING extra to use a Tablet or phone on the system. It doesnt even take up any programming time.

For $600 in hardware, there's simply nothing else in the market that does what it does.

This gets brought up a lot (for $600...).

This goes for not just C4, but any of these types of systems. You HAVE to factor in the cost of the network as well if it is not already in place. Yes, $600 is a great price point and comparitively, will still be lower then the competition when factoring in the network for all of them, but the number is most like $1000 or more when you add a decent network. OF course, this is assuming you will use the remote for more than just a basic control. If that is all you are using it for, then you can get in for less than $600 and do everything you want.
Post 56 made on Tuesday December 27, 2016 at 18:37
Mogul
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On December 27, 2016 at 10:02, goldenzrule said...
. They also offer a reasonable upgrade path for remotes that cannot be serviced. .

In my experience, this is absolutely not true. When the T2C+ I ordered and programmed that came with a defect out of the box, RTI did nothing because they disco'd the T2C+ already and had bo replacements. The T2X was, I beleive ~6 months out from being released. We were left high and dry.

The transition out of the T2C+ (my all-time favorite remote) was absolutely a disaster. That said, RTI was left hanging by its part supplier that abruptly discontinued key parts leaving them with few options.

Was RTI guilty of poor sales/supply forecasting and/or poor development planning..? Perhaps. But the situation overall was not of their making as I understand it.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." [Sir Henry Royce]
Post 57 made on Tuesday December 27, 2016 at 18:42
Mogul
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On December 27, 2016 at 09:58, radiorhea said...
I agree that you pick your poison. I have stuck it out with RTi over the years because of Integration Designer. I have plenty of remotes out there still doing their job. Most of my clients have "moved on" to iPad minis and their iPhones. They love them and agree that it is way easier if they drop one. It is going to happen. Their kids use Ipads and are very comfortable controlling the system with it.
APEX brings and new set of challenges. If RTi abandons ID then I will have no choice but to move on. I will not support that fiasco. I have put way too much time into ID and have an easy and simple interface for my clients with feedback. All RTi needs to do is improve the graphics selection and IP drivers list. If they spent their time on THIS instead of trying to fix what is NOT broke, they would allow us and them to make money, service our clients, and continue down a great path.

Agree on all points. RTI needs to introduce a massive graphics update to spread its primary two-way graphics elements (i.e Oasis) across all screen resolutions and to update source and channel inconry ASAP. Likewise, I'll be following u out the door if Apex becomes my only option for a programming interface. ID needs a few functional tweaks, but is overall fantastic. Fortunately, for now, ID development appears to be continuing in parallel with Apex...
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." [Sir Henry Royce]
Post 58 made on Tuesday December 27, 2016 at 19:09
goldenzrule
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On December 27, 2016 at 18:37, Mogul said...
The transition out of the T2C+ (my all-time favorite remote) was absolutely a disaster. That said, RTI was left hanging by its part supplier that abruptly discontinued key parts leaving them with few options.

Was RTI guilty of poor sales/supply forecasting and/or poor development planning..? Perhaps. But the situation overall was not of their making as I understand it.

I completely disagree. The did not plan properly at all. They had zero t2c+'s to cover warranty replacements. That fault cannot be blamed on anyone but themselves. It should be part of any EOL plan for any equipment. It was handled horribly.
Post 59 made on Tuesday December 27, 2016 at 20:09
KeithDBrown
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On December 25, 2016 at 10:34, Fins said...
The g1 comes with an IR remote. Retail, around $700

As someone else said...it comes with an IR remote. An MX-350 can be setup so that it doesn't need to be pointed at the TV, and it is a dinosaur (that keeps on kicking.)

When I sell automation and integration to clients I tell them they will be able to hand the remote to anyone that walks into their house and within seconds they will be able to use it with some level of competency. That means logical graphics and names, not icons. I don't want to tell a client that the "smiley face" will control their AppleTV.

Honestly, if the buttons were replaceable and customizable I would be willing to sell if for secondary rooms. But without basic customization it just feels cheap to me, not high value.

That is my personal take, not gospel.
Post 60 made on Tuesday December 27, 2016 at 20:16
cshepard
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On December 27, 2016 at 18:01, goldenzrule said...
This gets brought up a lot (for $600...).

This goes for not just C4, but any of these types of systems. You HAVE to factor in the cost of the network as well if it is not already in place. Yes, $600 is a great price point and comparitively, will still be lower then the competition when factoring in the network for all of them, but the number is most like $1000 or more when you add a decent network. OF course, this is assuming you will use the remote for more than just a basic control. If that is all you are using it for, then you can get in for less than $600 and do everything you want.

It's practically 2017...our clients need stable networks anyway.
Chris
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