How many parts in a new car use petroleum in the manufacturing process? I don't mean for creating the electricity needed to manufacture the part.

Speaking of electric cars,My sister and I drove her Tesla form Denver to Kansas city Kansas .

Impressive car overall. Handles like a dream.excellent power,fun to drive at any speed.

The only con is that it's a good thing my sis and I have a lot to talk about.
We averaged 180 miles on a charge......with me driving.....some of that may have been my fault!

At least we had a good time sitting around waiting for the car to charge!

If it had a small motor just to run a charger it would be a great road car.

As it stands,it's like cruising the U.S. on a Harley.

Lots of gas stops,plenty of time to stretch,and good conversation while you wait!

So I suppose if anyone wants to be sane about this discussion, they might be willing to admit that both sides have merit. 100% electric vehicles on the road, including vans, trucks pulling trailers and so forth is not practical in the least. Some electric cars can certainly work out, as the Prius has and others will.

Solar panels and electric cars require a considerable amount of oil to produce their materials, so the electric contingency shouldn't get all excited about never needing oil again. For Mac to say we don't need to use oil is not just a little bit funny.

But for dinosaur lovers and fossil fuel lovers, to dismiss electrics is probably equally funny. Seems to me that both have their place. Can't we just get along?

Two items:

First:
It's not a "knuckle-headed assertion", there *IS* a distinct MPG rating system that takes into account the mileage that came from the alternate fuel source vs the traditional MPG rating that calculates the fuel economy of the traditional fuel based drive system.

MPGe = miles per gallon equivalent, and it is combined with the typical MPG to give you a hard number so that you can the economy ratings of one hybrid vs another. Obviously something like a Prius or a Civic Hybrid scores a lot higher in MPGe than a Lexus RX450h.

Second:
Most electrical utilities allow you to choose a 'green energy' option on your bill, at approximately a 10% surcharge over the regular rates. This is supposed to mean that the accumulated quantity of energy used by all of the customers who choose this option is supplied to the grid system by the hydroelectric, wind, and solar generation facilities vs the coal or nuclear options. This helps fuel (all puns intended) the growth of the green energy facilities on the supply side.

Both sides don't have merit. The only reason we still need gasoline engine trucks today is that we didn't start investing in green technology earlier. Had we spent half the money we spent fiddling with the middle east.over the last 50 years...on solar research...we would have the solar panels and batteries we need to haul cargo with electric trucks today.


Its only funny if you think i said that. I said we don't need to burn things for fuel. Not needing to burn things for fuel is not the same as not needing oil to produce materials that are used in cars.

And FYI...for those confused by this seemingly common sense issue...Just because we need some oil to do some things doesn't mean we have to just give up and keep using oil for everything. We don't need to burn things anymore...so we shouldn't.


We can get along about as well as the horse breeders and the inventor of the motor car.

Actually, this level of vehicle is being worked on as well, and I do believe they will be practical.

If not fully electric, at least some hybrid form should work.




The wife's car, which is a full size (and to me luxury car), gets over 50 MPG at times when driven in a reasonable manner. But she isn't one to let a speed limit stand in her way, and getting up to that point is to be done as fast as possible, so her average MPG is lower than mine when I drive it.

Sure, some day the batteries will have to be replaced and then old ones recycled, but the cost of that is spread over a lot of miles. Well over 100K in fact. Break that cost down by the miles driven and it's not going to have anything but a tiny effect on the overall MPG and cost equation.


Full electric will be a viable avenue as the mileage constraints open up. When you can go over 400 to 500 miles on a charge, and the vehicle cost comes down, I believe we'll see a lot more of the electric cars on the road.

Perhaps most of the body will become a solar panel that works with the braking systems and other devices?



As an aside:

My beach buggy can go 40+ miles on a charge, and the island is only something like 12 miles long, so I'm good to go... :-)

Let me ask you all this... how many of you properly recycle of used products, packaging and items that can be recycled?

I've been recycling soda cans and bottles since I was a child. And very much into recycling now. I have gone out of my way to recycle products as well.

KOT

I just toss my trash out back and light it on fire. Seriously though thats what most people around here do. We are really close to the Wisconsin border. My first project in Wisconsin had a burn pile out front instead of a dumpster. I said "hey wait those have Styrofoam in them" and the guy laughed and said "who cares".

Same guy a week later approached me and started chit chatting about the "damn gays and their agenda". Not exactly sure what the agenda is but i haven't experienced it yet.

I don't imagine there is any way to substantiate that claim, other than you repeating it often enough makes it true.

More money, more research can certainly yield more results, but if the product has costs that are dramatically higher, outrageously higher, and will be that way for a long time, that is hard to make that kind of investment. My gas and electric bill is 10 times higher over what it was 25 years ago. To afford that kind of energy that you want everybody to have, it would have to be 20,30,50 times higher to pay for more expensive energy.

If air and solar had a better pay back, people with money that like to make money would be all over it.. The fact that we only have as much as we have shows that it is not as viable as we would like it to be without tremendous government subsidies.

In no way am I voting against solar and wind power, but the cost has to be taken into account. I personally like hydroelectric power. But nowadays it's pretty tough to build a dam without offending a mosquito or a bat somewhere.

Its amazing the amount of nut jobs in this world. If only we could KEEP them chained to the trees.

Is the electric company more efficient and less polluting than producing, transporting and burning gas to drive the equal distance? Then add in the recyling of the battery after that. I tend to think gas is convenient for the driver, but not as efficient. No facts, just a thought.

One of my neighbors has one that his wife drives. He is convinced that that harder you drive it off the line, the better mileage it gets. The theory being the quicker you get it up to speed on the battery the less energy it then uses to maintain speed.

Yes I think he is full of it.

If you get over 50 or 55, doesnt the engine take over?

Yes. But think about city traffic where you never go over 40-45.

I would think that, on an incremental pollution basis, an electric car trapped in traffic would have an advantage. If a significant fraction of a city's autos would convert to electric, smog would be reduced.

Really, the environmental benefit (or not) of electric cars should be examined  considering the total life cycle cost of manufacturing, using, and decommissioning of the vehicle. This "cost" should include air, water, and other environmental contributions from mining the ore to dumping in the landfill -- along with items consumed during use and maintenance cycles. Don't forget to include the HUGE pollution footprint of tankers and pipelines.

With respect to the "cost" of energy, it requires a certain amount of energy to move the mass of a car and contents from here to there. Is the "cost" of supplying energy lower when delivered one gas tank at a time, charging batteries using large power plant generated electricity (oil, geo, or solar based), or home solar. Don't forget to include building and maintaining the mining, drilling, refining, manufacturing, and distribution system "cost", efficiencies along the way, and final end of life disposal of everything in this chain.

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We remark about electric cars as having a large battery and lots of pollution associated with the battery. An alternative would be using a fuel cell in the car. The "fuel" associated with the cells is easily available and low impact if it leaks into the environment. In terms of "danger" associated with the fuel, it can't be much worse than that of gasoline. If the car is involved in an accident I would much rather have the hydrogen and oxygen quickly explode, burn, or leak into the environment than be faced with a gasoline explosion or fire, or a lithium fire. Recently, one of my customers lost an electric car in a fire. There was no accident. The battery became upset while driving and the car was consumed.