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Hot Tub Monitoring
This thread has 10 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Saturday November 26, 2016 at 20:03
TBD Brian
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Customer travels extensively. He has come home more than once wanting to use the hot tub, only to find out that the breaker has tripped and the water is not hot. It is also very important to prevent freezing in the winter. The breaker is a 220 volt with arc fault. The arc fault is the culprit... The electrician does not want to change out the the breaker to a non-arc fault which is understandable. I can monitor the breaker for power with a relay and a wireless alarm transmitter. Homeowner would like to monitor water temp as well.

Anyone done this before?
TBD Brian
Post 2 made on Sunday November 27, 2016 at 00:42
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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Hot tub shops MUST have technology to keep them from freezing in the winter! Even if you set up a monitor, there's nothing to keep it freezing. You'll just be able to watch the temperature fall.

Or are you not saying that someone else is always home and could reset the breaker if they knew to do so?

Now, about the arc fault breaker. Yes, they have problems. But is that the correct kind of breaker for a hot tub? It's not a GFCI, and hot tubs need those.

The article on wiring a hot tub at [Link: spadepot.com] doesn't even have the word "arc" in it but 31 occurrences of the initials "GFCI." The article "Installing a Spa Panel" at [Link: homedepot.com] also doesn't have the word "arc" in it but has "GFCI" seven times. Maybe arc fault breakers aren't needed.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 3 made on Sunday November 27, 2016 at 04:22
FrogAV
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Jandy iAqualink and Pentair ScreenLogic both do this and much much more. We've integrated them many times but pool contractor has always installed and serviced.
Ryan Posner
Frog AV
Post 4 made on Sunday November 27, 2016 at 09:06
drewski300
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I'm pretty sure your don't need an Arc Fault breaker for hot tubs. It's been a LONG time since I have done anything electrical but this doesn't seem accurate. It does need to be GFCI protected. I'd look into this....

As mentioned, Goldline, Jandy, etc are pool/spa controllers that can control the temp but I'm not sure if they have a way to communicate out if the water temp drops below a certain °. The Goldline PS4's and PS8's we've controlled haven't. Maybe Jandy does. I looked into integrating an Winland EnviroAlert with a temperature probe but we never ended up doing it. The EnviroAlert would give you the ability to do a local alarm and use an alarm panel, some sort of dailer, or anything that can send out push notifications.
"Just when I thought you couldn't possibly be any dumber, you go and do something like this... and totally redeem yourself!"
Post 5 made on Sunday November 27, 2016 at 13:56
cma
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If it's a stand alone hot tub there is no off the shelf way to monitor it. Jandy/aqualink units are made for built in tubs and pools with outboard pumps and equipment. The best you can do is tape a temperature sensor onto one of the pipes inside the unit and wrap it in insulation and then connect that to an alarm panel or automation system that can send out alerts. You could also attach a current sensor to the power lead into the tub unit to monitor that it is receiving power.

I lived in a house with a hot tub for a few years and it never tripped a breaker.. This was in the era before arc fault breakers though. Having it on an arc fault doesn't seem right though.
Post 6 made on Sunday November 27, 2016 at 23:46
3PedalMINI
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Unless the code has recently changed arc faults are only for bedrooms and living spaces. Are you sure it's not a GFCI and a faulty one at that? If it's ARC then it's tripping due to the inrush current of the motors/heater. Those ARC fault breakers a tricky sensitive little bugers
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
Post 7 made on Monday November 28, 2016 at 10:44
gerard143
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hot tubs can be a pain. they do false trip at times. mine only about once or twice a year but still annoying if your never around to notice mid winter.
Post 8 made on Monday November 28, 2016 at 10:56
drewski300
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On November 27, 2016 at 23:46, 3PedalMINI said...
Unless the code has recently changed arc faults are only for bedrooms and living spaces. Are you sure it's not a GFCI and a faulty one at that? If it's ARC then it's tripping due to the inrush current of the motors/heater. Those ARC fault breakers a tricky sensitive little bugers

In the last code update, they did extend arc protection to include broader protection but certainly not hot tubs.

Arc fault breakers to the electricians is what the HDMI connection is to the AV guy....The breakers actually have circuitry built in that monitors the signature of the arc. As more "things" require arc protection, the more signatures they have to store in the breaker. It won't be long before there is an ethernet connection in electrical panels....
"Just when I thought you couldn't possibly be any dumber, you go and do something like this... and totally redeem yourself!"
Post 9 made on Monday November 28, 2016 at 11:01
GotGame
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I have been recommending this company for years.
[Link: controlbyweb.com]

They work, I have not had one break and do what you ask.

I would recommend placing the unit in the house if possible. The motor location in the tub access area is not ideal. Or Use an external weatherproof box.
I may be schizophrenic, but at least I have each other.
Post 10 made on Monday November 28, 2016 at 14:41
drewski300
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On November 28, 2016 at 11:01, GotGame said...
I have been recommending this company for years.
[Link: controlbyweb.com]

They work, I have not had one break and do what you ask.

I would recommend placing the unit in the house if possible. The motor location in the tub access area is not ideal. Or Use an external weatherproof box.

That looks nice. What do you interface that with? It's own app? Security system? Or are you using an automation system?


Edit - Looks like it can use email service.

Last edited by drewski300 on November 28, 2016 14:53.
"Just when I thought you couldn't possibly be any dumber, you go and do something like this... and totally redeem yourself!"
Post 11 made on Monday November 28, 2016 at 22:57
GotGame
Super Member
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I had it interfaced with my Pro2 Crestron, before I pulled that out. I have it email alerts and check the webpage for status and control of the on board relays. The relays can be controlled by setpoints too, so they can trigger a contact closure alarm or light.
I may be schizophrenic, but at least I have each other.


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