Your Universal Remote Control Center
RemoteCentral.com
Custom Installers' Lounge Forum - View Post
Previous section Next section Previous page Next page Up level
Up level
The following page was printed from RemoteCentral.com:

Login:
Pass:
 
 

Page 1 of 2
Topic:
Thoughts on wacky wiring
This thread has 25 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Friday October 21, 2016 at 15:53
punter16
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2011
594
We just walked a house that has the original speakers and wiring from 1990. There is one pair of wires (16/4) at the home run that feeds 6 different pairs through the house. There are VCs at each speaker pair location in each room. We didn't have time to take the speakers out but we looked at one of the VCs and it wasn't a 70V VC. We looked for some type of hidden autoformer that everything might wire to or Bose gold amp from back in the day and we couldn't find anything. However, the way the house is laid out made it so we couldn't track all of the whole house wiring (no crawl space in many of these areas).

Any ideas as to what might be going on wire-wise or a best practice to track things down?

Thanks in advance
See our Youtube page for info about smart homes, great audio and more.

[Link: youtube.com]
Post 2 made on Friday October 21, 2016 at 15:55
Fred Harding
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
October 2001
3,456
If the volume controls are impedance matching, and the loop goes from input on vc to input on vc and so on, the wiring you have will support a single zone system. Set the VC's to 8x.
On the West Coast of Wisconsin
OP | Post 3 made on Friday October 21, 2016 at 16:14
punter16
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2011
594
Thanks for the response. We didn't see two pairs of 16/4 coming into the VCs. We just saw the one 16/4 coming in and one 16/4 going out to the speakers.
See our Youtube page for info about smart homes, great audio and more.

[Link: youtube.com]
Post 4 made on Friday October 21, 2016 at 16:34
GotGame
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2002
4,022
You might be missing a hidden junction somewhere in the wall or behind another wall box.
I may be schizophrenic, but at least I have each other.
Post 5 made on Friday October 21, 2016 at 16:34
Fred Harding
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
October 2001
3,456
I'm confused.

Option 1: there is one 4 conductor wire for each set of speakers in the house. If there are 6 pair, there are 6 4 conductor wires at the head end. Each 4 conductor wire goes to a vc, and a separate 4 conductor wire goes on into the walls to speakers. Pull two conductors off for first speaker, pull second two conductors off for second speaker. Use impedance match vc's or a speaker selector with impedance matching to protect amp.

Option 2: there is one 4 conductor wire at the head end. It goes to a vc location. Each of the vc locations have 4 conductor in, and 4 conductor out. You will need to use your toner to determine which room is the first in the chain, and which is second, and so on. Using impedance matching volume controls to protect the amp, you will need to retrofit speaker wiring to each vc to feed speakers in the room. Easiest would be to put a wall plate below the vc with speaker terminals and use box speakers in the room connected to that plate.

Option 1 or 2?
On the West Coast of Wisconsin
OP | Post 6 made on Friday October 21, 2016 at 17:10
punter16
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2011
594
Option 2 is what we see but it isn't immediately obvious if it goes directly to a VC. Because we didn't see 2 X 16/4s going into any VCs, we looked for an autoformer that might be hidden in one of the crawl spaces but we can't find it. Unfortunately the attic spaces are very limited so it's difficult to track where the wires go. This one is turning quickly into a paid "Discovery" return visit prior to bidding.

Thanks for the info.
See our Youtube page for info about smart homes, great audio and more.

[Link: youtube.com]
Post 7 made on Friday October 21, 2016 at 17:34
kgossen
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
March 2008
3,026
Look for one of the old Impedance matching units. Phoenix Gold had this piece and I thought Sonance too.


[Link: audiosource.net]
"Quality isn't expensive, it's Priceless!"
Post 8 made on Friday October 21, 2016 at 18:47
cma
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2003
3,044
On October 21, 2016 at 17:10, punter16 said...
Option 2 is what we see but it isn't immediately obvious if it goes directly to a VC. Because we didn't see 2 X 16/4s going into any VCs, we looked for an autoformer that might be hidden in one of the crawl spaces but we can't find it. Unfortunately the attic spaces are very limited so it's difficult to track where the wires go. This one is turning quickly into a paid "Discovery" return visit prior to bidding.

Thanks for the info.

Look where the one 16/4 comes out of the wall to the amp.. I have seen people wire nut all of the 16/4s together to a single 16/4 to the amp and then shove the whole mess back into the wall behind the plate.
Post 9 made on Friday October 21, 2016 at 22:35
vwpower44
Super Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2004
3,662
There is a Phoenix Gold or Sonance Structured wiring panel with an impedance matching system in it. It will look like a 14" structured wiring panel. Last one I found was in a f*cking closet in a customers basement bedroom. It took forever to find it.



Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish...
Post 10 made on Friday October 21, 2016 at 23:57
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
Joined:
Posts:
December 2001
30,104
Yes, there's a third choice, and something like vwpower44's photo should be somewhere.

What Fred missed is that there might be some place out of sight where the one set of wires coming from the amp splits out to several other single sets of wires going to the volume controls.

Get the volume controls out of the wall and track down their specs. Some matching volume controls have nearly invisible switches for adjusting the impedance. This hardly matters, though: you have a fully wired one zone several room system.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 11 made on Saturday October 22, 2016 at 07:23
thecapnredfish
Senior Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2008
1,397
I do believe there was a company making IM VC'S without switches. They were fixed. Want to say they were X8.
Post 12 made on Saturday October 22, 2016 at 10:31
highfigh
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
September 2004
8,311
On October 21, 2016 at 15:53, punter16 said...
We just walked a house that has the original speakers and wiring from 1990. There is one pair of wires (16/4) at the home run that feeds 6 different pairs through the house. There are VCs at each speaker pair location in each room. We didn't have time to take the speakers out but we looked at one of the VCs and it wasn't a 70V VC. We looked for some type of hidden autoformer that everything might wire to or Bose gold amp from back in the day and we couldn't find anything. However, the way the house is laid out made it so we couldn't track all of the whole house wiring (no crawl space in many of these areas).

Any ideas as to what might be going on wire-wise or a best practice to track things down?

Thanks in advance

You need to buy a device for sending an audible tone through wiring and use that to find the cable paths. The far VC shouldn't be the first in line from the head end, but with only one 4 conductor cable at the head end, anything is possible. Remove all of the VCs to make it possible to test and then, label the cables with some identifying number or code and create a list so you can organize your thoughts.

Since it doesn't have crawl space below all areas, what about the attic? Have you looked there for the cables?
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 13 made on Saturday October 22, 2016 at 16:38
tweeterguy
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2005
7,713
If all 6 zones tone out from the head end, there is something stashed somewhere else. As noted look for a bundle of taped up wire nuts in the wall or maybe one of these tucked away in a cabinet, attic, or wall cavity:

[Link: nilesaudio.com]

Those were all the rage in the 90's-early 2000's
OP | Post 14 made on Saturday October 22, 2016 at 20:15
punter16
Active Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2011
594
On October 22, 2016 at 16:38, tweeterguy said...
If all 6 zones tone out from the head end, there is something stashed somewhere else. As noted look for a bundle of taped up wire nuts in the wall or maybe one of these tucked away in a cabinet, attic, or wall cavity:

[Link: nilesaudio.com]

Those were all the rage in the 90's-early 2000's

That's exactly the piece I was looking for when we saw one pair of wires! Good memory.
See our Youtube page for info about smart homes, great audio and more.

[Link: youtube.com]
Post 15 made on Saturday October 22, 2016 at 20:54
tweeterguy
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
June 2005
7,713
On October 22, 2016 at 20:15, punter16 said...
That's exactly the piece I was looking for when we saw one pair of wires! Good memory.

Bad memories more like :-)
Page 1 of 2


Jump to


Protected Feature Before you can reply to a message...
You must first register for a Remote Central user account - it's fast and free! Or, if you already have an account, please login now.

Please read the following: Unsolicited commercial advertisements are absolutely not permitted on this forum. Other private buy & sell messages should be posted to our Marketplace. For information on how to advertise your service or product click here. Remote Central reserves the right to remove or modify any post that is deemed inappropriate.

Hosting Services by ipHouse