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New one for me. Client sold home mid project.
This thread has 20 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Tuesday September 27, 2016 at 14:11
Richie Rich
Senior Member
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Did a proposal for a returning client a few months ago. Had me break out the network from the main quote and do that part ASAP. That went off without a hitch, paid, work order closed.

About a month later he approved the AV quote, sent the deposit, sent the first equipment payment and we agreed to a start date. They stated they wouldn't be home during the project, no big deal, pretty normal for them.
Get to the job to start work and get asked to leave by a random woman that is in their home. Turns out she is a realtor, sometime in the 48 hours since I had last spoken to the client he had decided to put his home on the market.
Contact the client, they apologize for not contacting me and I get told to proceed as agreed. They are nice people, very,very wealthy, not the most communicative at times but very spontaneous, not much that they do surprise me. They got a chance to buy their dream home and moved on it quickly, decided 4 houses was a bit much so they decided to sell this one.

Did a few days worth of prep work, planned on delivering the bulk of the equipment today. Get a call last night from his asset manager saying the house has sold and to stop working until we get this sorted out. Also asked me for an itemization of work completed and equipment status. Did a detailed summary of all requested and sent it to him. Currently awaiting his response.

Questions to you guys are.
1. What is the best way to handle this in terms of the existing contract?
At current, I am right side up on the project. The bulk of the equipment is still in my possession so as of now I am unconcerned about being on the bad side of this deal.

2. If the property is changing hands, I lose my lien rights unless the new homeowner agrees to take on the current contract correct?
My worry here would be getting final payment out of the former homeowner. Guy has never given me any reason to not trust him but business is business.

3. What is the most equitable solution to this should he decide to back out?
Other then the surveillance system being offline, the home is intact and functional. Should I simply expect to have my to date costs and labor/management covered as well as any restocking fees for equipment and issue him a refund for the rest? I have never put any cancellation clauses in my contracts, have never needed them. I want to do the right thing by him, he is a good client, owns multiple properties and best case scenario, I have the inside on continuing to service this home for the new homeowner as well.

Over the years I have had clients pass away, houses burn down, foreclosures, divorce, break ins and a few other oddities. This is a new one on me.
I am a trained professional..... Do not attempt this stunt at home.
Post 2 made on Tuesday September 27, 2016 at 14:53
kwkshift
Active Member
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February 2004
508
To #2: No, your lien rights should still be in place since that's what's referred to as a "cloud on the title" in most states and is against the property, not the person.
Post 3 made on Tuesday September 27, 2016 at 15:21
Mac Burks (39)
Elite Member
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On September 27, 2016 at 14:11, Richie Rich said...
Did a proposal for a returning client a few months ago. Had me break out the network from the main quote and do that part ASAP. That went off without a hitch, paid, work order closed.

About a month later he approved the AV quote, sent the deposit, sent the first equipment payment and we agreed to a start date. They stated they wouldn't be home during the project, no big deal, pretty normal for them.
Get to the job to start work and get asked to leave by a random woman that is in their home. Turns out she is a realtor, sometime in the 48 hours since I had last spoken to the client he had decided to put his home on the market.
Contact the client, they apologize for not contacting me and I get told to proceed as agreed. They are nice people, very,very wealthy, not the most communicative at times but very spontaneous, not much that they do surprise me. They got a chance to buy their dream home and moved on it quickly, decided 4 houses was a bit much so they decided to sell this one.

Did a few days worth of prep work, planned on delivering the bulk of the equipment today. Get a call last night from his asset manager saying the house has sold and to stop working until we get this sorted out. Also asked me for an itemization of work completed and equipment status. Did a detailed summary of all requested and sent it to him. Currently awaiting his response.

Questions to you guys are.
1. What is the best way to handle this in terms of the existing contract?
At current, I am right side up on the project. The bulk of the equipment is still in my possession so as of now I am unconcerned about being on the bad side of this deal.

2. If the property is changing hands, I lose my lien rights unless the new homeowner agrees to take on the current contract correct?
My worry here would be getting final payment out of the former homeowner. Guy has never given me any reason to not trust him but business is business.

Your lien rights are attached to the property. Thats the point of them. I would contact a lawyer about this asap to make sure you aren't being put on pause so they can try to screw you.

3. What is the most equitable solution to this should he decide to back out?
Other then the surveillance system being offline, the home is intact and functional. Should I simply expect to have my to date costs and labor/management covered as well as any restocking fees for equipment and issue him a refund for the rest? I have never put any cancellation clauses in my contracts, have never needed them. I want to do the right thing by him, he is a good client, owns multiple properties and best case scenario, I have the inside on continuing to service this home for the new homeowner as well.

Shipping things back isn't cheap and buyers remorse doesn't mean they get all their money back minus your shipping costs. Be sure to include the labor involved and any losses on items that you can't return.

Over the years I have had clients pass away, houses burn down, foreclosures, divorce, break ins and a few other oddities. This is a new one on me.

Client is breaching the contract. Aside from being nice to a client you like IMO the balls in your court. Your paid up so far on labor and he paid for equipment in full. He can take delivery of the hardware he bought or he can accept whatever you give him after restocking fees. Maybe give him store credit forcing him to use you on the next project? :).
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 4 made on Tuesday September 27, 2016 at 16:46
Hasbeen
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I think you guys are jumping the gun a little bit don't you?  why don't you just call the guy and ask him to pay you up front?

Putting a lien on the house is going to ruin the relationship, and he obviously can't sell it until the lien is cleared.  You know when he'll find out there's a lien on the property?  When the Title Company calls him and says they can't proceed with the closing until he takes care of the lien.

People who own 4 houses, aren't used to these types of shenanigans. It would be a blow to his ego, and would certainly ruin the relationship.

That being said, from everything I've read, he's been a very good client and has used you multiple times. He obviously values you, and you obviously value the work.  Just call him and ask him to pay up front.  He'll do it.
Post 5 made on Tuesday September 27, 2016 at 17:23
cma
Super Member
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If he's been a good continuing client for you why are you concerned? Good clients usually don't go bad.
OP | Post 6 made on Tuesday September 27, 2016 at 17:39
Richie Rich
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On September 27, 2016 at 17:23, cma said...
If he's been a good continuing client for you why are you concerned? Good clients usually don't go bad.

Had it happen to me once.

Guy with a huge home, expensive sports cars etc. The previous guy had closed up shop and moved out of California. I came to him as a referral from his programmer.
Did some work for him, older system, paid in full, on time, every time. Super nice guy, had me stay for dinner/drinks with him and his wife a time or two.
Got to the point where was he throwing money down the drain keeping his old system patched together.

Put a proposal together at his request, he elected to have me do one more "get him down the road" a bit fix before pulling the trigger to do a total ($100k+) gut and replace.

Since I had a positive prior relationship with him, I didn't ask for a deposit up front for this little job. No proposal, deposit etc. Brought equipment, did job, asked for check.
Guy said he forgot his checkbook at the office, would mail me one. No big deal I thought.

Turns out he had just lost his final appeal on a multi million dollar judgement against him. It bankrupted him, he lost his house, I never saw that check.
It was only abt $1,000 but it was a pretty expensive lesson for me.

I am not saying that this client is anything like the one that I got that difficult lesson from. He is a good client and he and his wife are very likable, easy to work with people, Just that I am always cautious when there is money on the line.

Honestly, I am more concerned about what the most equitable solution is. Because ideally I would love to finish this project, get paid in full, continue to service the home for the new homeowner and retain the now former owner as a client.

Barring that, I am trying to come up with the best option to sever the existing contract that leaves both of us satisfied. Also have to factor in that I am in a holding pattern (losing paid labor days) waiting for the homeowner(s) to come to a decision as well as potentially logjamming me for another upcoming job.
I am a trained professional..... Do not attempt this stunt at home.
Post 7 made on Tuesday September 27, 2016 at 17:45
Mac Burks (39)
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On September 27, 2016 at 16:46, Hasbeen said...
I think you guys are jumping the gun a little bit don't you?  why don't you just call the guy and ask him to pay you up front?

He already called the guy and the guy has already paid. Our responses are about what happens next.

A realtor told him to leave the house vs getting a call or text or email or fax or written letter from the client (strange but okay). Soooo he contacted the client and was told to proceed and he does. Then an asset manager tells him that someone else owns the house now...asks him to stop work until they get it sorted out. A lot of "oops/sorry/my mistake" has happened already. I would at least have a conversation with my lawyer about it to avoid something i haven't thought of coming back to bite me.

Best case scenario the new owner gets the equipment and the OP finishes the job and gets paid the balance at the end.

Worst case scenario the new owner doesn't want the system. Old homeowner wants his money back for gear he already paid for and OP doesn't finish the project.

Either way the OP is right side up and the only one who can lose here is the homeowner so its really on them and their asset manager to figure this out.

Putting a lien on the house is going to ruin the relationship, and he obviously can't sell it until the lien is cleared.  You know when he'll find out there's a lien on the property?  When the Title Company calls him and says they can't proceed with the closing until he takes care of the lien.

House is sold already. There is no lien right now. There really isn't a reason for him to put a lien on the house (aside from the client breaching the contract he signed) but that doesn't mean he shouldn't take my advice and talk with his lawyer about it.

Hes already doing the client a favor by stopping work and breaching the contract. If he gives him any money back for the gear thats favor #2. If the client ends up here with his ego hurt or the relationship ruined its his own fault.

People who own 4 houses, aren't used to these types of shenanigans. It would be a blow to his ego, and would certainly ruin the relationship.

That being said, from everything I've read, he's been a very good client and has used you multiple times. He obviously values you, and you obviously value the work.  Just call him and ask him to pay up front.  He'll do it.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 8 made on Tuesday September 27, 2016 at 17:56
Hasbeen
Loyal Member
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On September 27, 2016 at 17:45, Mac Burks (39) said...
He already called the guy and the guy has already paid. Our responses are about what happens next.


Dammit...I need my money back for that speed reading course back!

Carry on.  Nothing to see here.
OP | Post 9 made on Tuesday September 27, 2016 at 18:18
Richie Rich
Senior Member
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On September 27, 2016 at 17:45, Mac Burks (39) said...
He already called the guy and the guy has already paid. Our responses are about what happens next.

A realtor told him to leave the house vs getting a call or text or email or fax or written letter from the client (strange but okay). Soooo he contacted the client and was told to proceed and he does. Then an asset manager tells him that someone else owns the house now...asks him to stop work until they get it sorted out. A lot of "oops/sorry/my mistake" has happened already. I would at least have a conversation with my lawyer about it to avoid something i haven't thought of coming back to bite me.

Best case scenario the new owner gets the equipment and the OP finishes the job and gets paid the balance at the end.

Worst case scenario the new owner doesn't want the system. Old homeowner wants his money back for gear he already paid for and OP doesn't finish the project.

Either way the OP is right side up and the only one who can lose here is the homeowner so its really on them and their asset manager to figure this out.

House is sold already. There is no lien right now. There really isn't a reason for him to put a lien on the house (aside from the client breaching the contract he signed) but that doesn't mean he shouldn't take my advice and talk with his lawyer about it.

Hes already doing the client a favor by stopping work and breaching the contract. If he gives him any money back for the gear thats favor #2. If the client ends up here with his ego hurt or the relationship ruined its his own fault.

I am going to wait for a response from the client or his rep and see what their thoughts are before consulting an attorney. At this point I have no indication of a negative outcome.
From a money point of view, I am fine. I have the equipment purchased for the project as well as a pretty good size chunk of change for a very expensive component that won't ship for another month that is on order via my distributor that I don't have to pay for until it arrives. The only thing I have outstanding at this point is my final payment (15%).

The other outside possibility is that he just washes his hands of the whole thing and drops off the face of the earth. He did that to me for a year once right after I sent him a proposal. If that happens, I will speak to an attorney to find out what my legal obligations are.

Did I ever tell you guys the story of one of my clients who abandoned their Aston Martin in an airport parking garage? Or the client who insisted that everything for his system be shipped overnight on his dime then pushed the start date for his project back two weeks?
Ultra high net worth people do some pretty strange stuff sometimes.

Sometimes I feel like a minnow swimming in a tank full of sharks.
I am a trained professional..... Do not attempt this stunt at home.
Post 10 made on Tuesday September 27, 2016 at 18:59
BigPapa
Super Member
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3,139
Maybe I missed it: is the current AV system in the RE transaction 'as is' or completed? That dictates where to go.

If 'as is' the client can pay you to send the stuff back - restocking fees. Or you can offer to transfer the project to new owner (with new contract).

Or he can pay you to finish the job as agreed to.
OP | Post 11 made on Tuesday September 27, 2016 at 20:05
Richie Rich
Senior Member
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On September 27, 2016 at 18:59, BigPapa said...
Maybe I missed it: is the current AV system in the RE transaction 'as is' or completed? That dictates where to go.

If 'as is' the client can pay you to send the stuff back - restocking fees. Or you can offer to transfer the project to new owner (with new contract).

Or he can pay you to finish the job as agreed to.

I have no idea at this point if the completed system is part of the contract on the house. They may want it as is, they may want the system completed per the contract with the previous homeowner, they may want to scrap everything I was slated to put in and opt for whole home automation.

Honestly, I kind of wonder if he totally forgot about it when he decided to sell the house. His wife has been my main point of contact, with all that goes on in their world, I am sure the AV guy isn't a major topic of conversation.
I am a trained professional..... Do not attempt this stunt at home.
Post 12 made on Tuesday September 27, 2016 at 22:49
Rob Grabon
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Sounds like you have his equipment he paid for and then some cash for equipment that hasn't arrived?

Ask his asset manager where he would like the clients paid for equipment delivered too, do so asap. Cancel any incoming. Open a specific account and put any left over money in it, keeping it separate from your account. Wait.

The new owner isn't likeley to agree on the choice of equipment. If you posses the equipment the client has leverage to ask for money, since he won't want the equipment either. Since its paid for its legally his anyways, deliver it. You don't want to be the monkey in the middle.

If it sorts out in a reasonable amount of time and you want to buy back, restock, return, then you're in the power position to do so.
Technology is cheap, Time is expensive.
Post 13 made on Tuesday September 27, 2016 at 23:06
radiorhea
Super Member
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3,264
What if the guy wants the balance of the equipment for the dream home?

I would stop anything new coming in, sit on it for 30-90 days, contacting the rep for instructions as often as once a week.

Wait it out a bit
Drinking upstream from the herd since 1960
Post 14 made on Wednesday September 28, 2016 at 01:04
Mario
Loyal Member
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November 2006
5,681
If you don't have a lean in place currently, than it won't be enforceable after the sale of the house.
You've been paid for labor to date -- good for you. Now you need to wait for current or new homeowner to contact you to continue work. Otherwise, you might be trespassing.
As for equipment in your possession; write invoice for full/balance payment and another one for returning the items with restocking fee, S/H, etc.. Have lawful owner make the decision on next steps.
Post 15 made on Wednesday September 28, 2016 at 08:07
Rob Grabon
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Possible Scenarios

1. New buyer want's same system, let's be real, he isn't going to pay full price once he learns someones sitting on the equipment. Let buyer and client negotiate. Otherwise you're playing monkey in the middle, and possible upsetting 2 clients.

2. New buyer doesn't want equipment, you don't want the equipment, client doesn't want the equipment. Client want's his money back. He has better lawyers than you do.

3. Client upsets buyer because he didn't tell him about the 5am woodpecker, but want's you to do the system. Sticks it to client for the equipment, because he can, buys new equipment from you, win!

4. There is no buyer, client's in trouble financially, here come his creditors, who also have great lawyers.

5. Client's going to jail, authorities get involved.

6. Buyer drops out, house sits for months, equipment is in your way loosing value.....

7. Client is going to use the equipment in another house out of your market, his liability to get it there.

8. You get robbed, his equipment stolen, you're liable.

9. New buyer want's some of the equipment which is now sitting in the house, client made it part of the sale. You're contacted to install, new buyer doesn't like S.... TVs, wants V.... TVs, his problem to sell them. If you're in possession different conversation.... "I want to finish the system, but you'll have to swap out x for y or no deal" "I know, it's his equipment, but these are my terms, or I'll find someone else".

There's no scenario where it's to your advantage to be in possession of his equipment, he paid for it, deliver it.
Technology is cheap, Time is expensive.
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