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When do we, as an industry, tell the manufacturers that HDMI should be replaced?
This thread has 67 replies. Displaying posts 61 through 68.
Post 61 made on Friday September 23, 2016 at 12:28
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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On September 22, 2016 at 14:49, Mac Burks (39) said...
If you were a librarian or a fire fighter i could see how this would be confusing. If you are an audio video technician you should understand that label with no issue. If you are an audio video technician and that statement does confuse you...i think its safe to say that you will also have issues with basic HDMI wiring and possibly tying your shoes.

I see. You're not writing for the audience here, which will include beginners who come here for advice and learning. You're writing them off by writing for the seasoned professional. You defend your use of terms that "audio video technicians" will understand. Okay.

I think your problem is that you consider my seasoned exceptional expertise to be "Luck".

You don't point out anything at all about your installations that reflect anything exceptional. Your attitude seems to be that your installations simply work and you don't understand what other people are making all the fuss about. Must be luck.

I used quotation marks on either side of the word luck in that last sentence to make the reader of this paragraph aware that i was quoting the words that you typed...

I understand your use of the quotation marks. And look: here you're writing for the person who might not get it. Why are you willing to be explicit for non-seasoned grammarians here, but you don't write explicitly for the benefit of non-seasoned audio video technicians?
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 62 made on Friday September 23, 2016 at 18:20
Mac Burks (39)
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On September 23, 2016 at 12:28, Ernie Gilman said...
I see. You're not writing for the audience here, which will include beginners who come here for advice and learning. You're writing them off by writing for the seasoned professional. You defend your use of terms that "audio video technicians" will understand. Okay.

Like most great artists i write for me. If what i write somehow improves the lives of those in the audience that is great but it is not my primary concern. Do you think Prince wrote "raspberry beret" for the audience? Do you think chief keef wrote "bang" for the audience?

You don't point out anything at all about your installations that reflect anything exceptional. Your attitude seems to be that your installations simply work and you don't understand what other people are making all the fuss about. Must be luck.

I mentioned many times that all of my HDMI installations went well. I even pointed out the few issues i have had and what solved them. Did you miss that part or did i miss the right punctuation that would have made it easier for you to read? I have CEDIA Awards in my sock drawer.

I understand your use of the quotation marks. And look: here you're writing for the person who might not get it. Why are you willing to be explicit for non-seasoned grammarians here, but you don't write explicitly for the benefit of non-seasoned audio video technicians?

If you fail at reading and comprehension you should buy the audio book.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 63 made on Friday September 23, 2016 at 18:34
Mac Burks (39)
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On September 23, 2016 at 09:49, andrewinboulder said...
On that job it was a 50 ft Binary cable from an Onkyo AVR to a Sharp TV.

I have a grave yard of HDMI extenders in my office. Every single one of them have been units that worked great while I was on site, but then f&*ck up later, video drops out, require reboots etc, etc. A unit will work fine on one job site, so I make it my go-to and then it fails on another site.

I've tried Binary, Atlona, Hydraconnect, probably others I can't remember.

I finally started running conduit whenever humanly possible.

This is what we do. All of our projects have been new constructions since the dark days (2008 financial collapse) so installing conduit has been easy.

I had a remodel job a couple years ago, with three local systems, all of which had Key Digital HDMI matrix switches. I pulled conduit to all the TVs. I pulled moderately price Key Digital HDMI cables to all of the TV's. The longest run was about 75 ft. All the TV's worked while I was there, then they all started screwing up. Ended up pulling all new higher end Ethereal HDMI cables to every TV and they all worked from then on.

I have several budget jobs with Amazon 50 ft HDMI $40 cables that still work fine.

I think I might need some lasers.

Mac,
If you have a local system in a home, with an AVR, and only existing Cat5e to work with, and you have a 50-75 ft run between the AVR and TV, what is your go-to solution?

We would (actually we usually have the clients electrician) retrofit a flexible conduit between the TV and the equipment. Then we would use an HDMI cable up to 80' or a Crestron HD-EXT3-C for anything over that.
Avid Stamp Collector - I really love 39 Cent Stamps
Post 64 made on Saturday September 24, 2016 at 01:32
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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Ouch.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 65 made on Saturday September 24, 2016 at 09:55
andrewinboulder
Select Member
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On September 23, 2016 at 18:34, Mac Burks (39) said...
This is what we do. All of our projects have been new constructions since the dark days (2008 financial collapse) so installing conduit has been easy.

We would (actually we usually have the clients electrician) retrofit a flexible conduit between the TV and the equipment. Then we would use an HDMI cable up to 80' or a Crestron HD-EXT3-C for anything over that.

Interesting.

If your company gets a call from someone with, say, a 6-7K budget for a basic surround system in an existing finished house, requiring the retrofit of new cabling through the attic/crawl space, do you guys just basically send 'em packing (meaning they don't fit the right customer profile, so you say, "no thanks" in order for your company can focus only high end of the market?)
Post 66 made on Saturday September 24, 2016 at 12:42
Dean Roddey
Senior Member
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I always thought that HDMI was a serial interface, but some reading indicates it's not. That's surprising. It's actually three parallel twisted pair connections, so they have to be kept in sync, within the tight constraints of the really high bit rate of HDMI at 1080p and beyond.

Here's an informative article for those of us who haven't immersed ourselves in this issue:

[Link: bluejeanscable.com]
Dean Roddey
Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems
www.charmedquark.com
OP | Post 67 made on Sunday September 25, 2016 at 06:53
highfigh
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On September 24, 2016 at 12:42, Dean Roddey said...
I always thought that HDMI was a serial interface, but some reading indicates it's not. That's surprising. It's actually three parallel twisted pair connections, so they have to be kept in sync, within the tight constraints of the really high bit rate of HDMI at 1080p and beyond.

Here's an informative article for those of us who haven't immersed ourselves in this issue:

[Link: bluejeanscable.com]

And that's the reason the traces need to be the same length. A small difference at these frequencies makes enough of a difference, but as I wrote, they (Spectrum) could have dealt with it internally, rather than force integrators to deal with their crap.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 68 made on Sunday October 2, 2016 at 15:09
Anthony
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On September 23, 2016 at 12:28, Ernie Gilman said...
I see. You're not writing for the audience here, which will include beginners who come here for advice and learning. You're writing them off by writing for the seasoned professional. You defend your use of terms that "audio video technicians" will understand. Okay.

not to be mean but this is the CI lounge not the beginner av club, there are a lot of other forums on this site if a beginner just wants some basic knowledge. We can't start every post with enough info so that someone that does not know how to plug in a TV will be able to make heads or tails of what is written.

At worst if something is over someone's head they should ask a question to get up to speed.

You don't point out anything at all about your installations that reflect anything exceptional. Your attitude seems to be that your installations simply work and you don't understand what other people are making all the fuss about. Must be luck.

I don't think it needs to be "luck". Like Mac we don't seem to have as much of an issue as some others do here. I think it is a bit that CI is a very wide, not just in knowledge but also in business model. If someone does several TVs a day stapled on a wall and competes with Geek squad then they will need to cut some corners (like cheaper cables) and so they can have more issues then a company like ours where we have a lot more control on each install.
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