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When do we, as an industry, tell the manufacturers that HDMI should be replaced?
This thread has 67 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Monday September 19, 2016 at 09:32
highfigh
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In light of the recent revelations that copper wire is done WRT 4K (and above)/WDR/10 bit and we now need fiber, why not just adopt a new standard? It can't be due to the fact that HDMI has been used for too long- the initial tests were in 2003, so it's only 13 years.

It sucks, I'm tired of incompatibility problems, the physical (lack of) strength in the plug and ports, badly-fitting insertions, flashing picture, CEC, etc are pissing me off, disappointing clients and making them doubt that it will work over the long term.

I'm sick up and fed with this.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 2 made on Monday September 19, 2016 at 09:37
jrainey
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Ummm....what are you saying....that we as a flyspeck community try to tell manufacturers what to do.....

Don't think so....

And no the VAST majority of customers will not need fiber....the under 5M passive wires that they own right now will work just fine....
Jack Rainey - Full disclosure...reformed integrator, now mid-Atlantic manufacturers rep for: Integra, Paradigm, Anthem, Parasound, Atlona, LG TV's and Metra Home Theater...among others
OP | Post 3 made on Monday September 19, 2016 at 09:59
highfigh
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On September 19, 2016 at 09:37, jrainey said...
Ummm....what are you saying....that we as a flyspeck community try to tell manufacturers what to do.....

Don't think so....

And no the VAST majority of customers will not need fiber....the under 5M passive wires that they own right now will work just fine....

We're not a "flyspeck community", we're just treated that way.

This stuff isn't going to install itself, is it? Should electricians do it? How about the people from the Genius Bar? I know hobbyists do a lot of their own, but do they want to go into business doing this? How many threads have we seen that revolved around the problems with HDMI and how many accessories do we need, to combat the BS that shows up out of the blue?

Should a working TV need to be replaced just because someone wants to connect it in a secondary system where picture quality isn't necessarily the main criterion, but it sure would be nice to not see e-mails from a good customer on a Saturday evening telling me that they can't get a picture with U-Verse, when it's impossible for me to do anything about it.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 4 made on Monday September 19, 2016 at 10:12
Fins
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We have no say in this. Our Industry isn't enough for manufacturers to care. As for doing something with fiber, the people that could make this change are the same people that can't make a toslink cable stay plugged in.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 5 made on Monday September 19, 2016 at 10:22
Audiophiliac
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We do what we did when HDMI replaced component video. We deal with it. When you look at the original HDMI spec, it was really designed to go <10' from source to sink. Period. Look at what our industry did with that. Pretty amazing that we can go 100m with it and also piggy back IR, RS232, Ethernet, CEC, ARC, USB, power, etc. over a single CATs cable! Brilliant!

We might just have to go back to short stacks of gear near every TV. Like it used to be. Or there will be less TVs to worry about when it will cost $5000 to connect that 24" TV in the sewing room. :)

Hey, at least speakers are still speakers. :)
"When I eat, it is the food that is scared." - Ron Swanson
OP | Post 6 made on Monday September 19, 2016 at 10:50
highfigh
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On September 19, 2016 at 10:12, Fins said...
We have no say in this. Our Industry isn't enough for manufacturers to care. As for doing something with fiber, the people that could make this change are the same people that can't make a toslink cable stay plugged in.

Don't want to use hot glue? It's the Brylcreem of glue- "Just a dab'll do ya".
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
OP | Post 7 made on Monday September 19, 2016 at 10:56
highfigh
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On September 19, 2016 at 10:22, Audiophiliac said...
We do what we did when HDMI replaced component video. We deal with it. When you look at the original HDMI spec, it was really designed to go <10' from source to sink. Period. Look at what our industry did with that. Pretty amazing that we can go 100m with it and also piggy back IR, RS232, Ethernet, CEC, ARC, USB, power, etc. over a single CATs cable! Brilliant!

We might just have to go back to short stacks of gear near every TV. Like it used to be. Or there will be less TVs to worry about when it will cost $5000 to connect that 24" TV in the sewing room. :)

Hey, at least speakers are still speakers. :)

And it was supposed to be compatible with DVI and NOT be inserted, removed, inserted, removed, rinse/lather/repeat. It was supposed to be connected and left alone. The cables are often too stiff, they stress the shit out of the plug & port and that voids the warranty, which sucks because a single HDMI port can't be replaced. When we think it will survive the stress and it causes damage, who eats it?

All of the added capabilities are great, but it's not always backward compatible and then, they had the Analog Sunset- who bought a player, hoping that it would be forced to dumb down the resolution? Not as much of a problem with up-conversion, but sometimes that isn't available.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 8 made on Monday September 19, 2016 at 11:12
Ernie Gilman
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On September 19, 2016 at 10:50, highfigh said...
Don't want to use hot glue? It's the Brylcreem of glue- "Just a dab'll do ya".

If you're going to get corny and quote something, quote it correctly: "A little dab'll do ya."

I was in a KMart the other day. While waiting through an excruciating and worthless process with customer service, I counted a dozen models of TV for sale, all 40" and under, that all MUST have HDMI connections. People with no technical expertise can buy these and an HDMI cable, then connect their cable box or satellite receiver and have quite satisfactory TV setup.

Bang and they're done. To the manufacturing industry, that's success. We can't fight that.

It's nice to see someone confirm what I've long said: the idiot manufacturers introduced a technology designed to only take the signal a short distance. I call them idiots because that virtually eliminated their projectors and larger TVs from being able to be installed with the technology as it existed at the moment.


Yes, we are a flyspeck in the video industry, and there's nothing we can do to influence the products that are foisted on us. Or can someone out there say they have an industry contact who will listen to their concerns? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? (And don't forget that a "flyspeck" is a nice term for a piece of fly crap.)

Last edited by Ernie Gilman on September 19, 2016 11:56.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 9 made on Monday September 19, 2016 at 11:33
jrainey
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We are absolutely a flyspeck community and we are treated that way.....we deal with the tip of the pyramid....the VAST majority is a self install on a console....the custom install community will never have a impact on the CE manufacturers.
Jack Rainey - Full disclosure...reformed integrator, now mid-Atlantic manufacturers rep for: Integra, Paradigm, Anthem, Parasound, Atlona, LG TV's and Metra Home Theater...among others
Post 10 made on Monday September 19, 2016 at 11:44
3PedalMINI
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More or less, our community just needs to band together and demand quality equipment and standards from this companies, and as a company DEMAND augment for service calls regarding failed and shit equipment. Again, another reason Cedia sucks.

Could you imagine the type of quality gear and development we had if manufacturers had to pay us for their shit products and design? We would have decent equipment finally...
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
Post 11 made on Monday September 19, 2016 at 12:02
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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On September 19, 2016 at 11:44, 3PedalMINI said...
More or less, our community just needs to band together and demand quality equipment and standards from this companies, and as a company DEMAND augment for service calls regarding failed and shit equipment. Again, another reason Cedia sucks.

CEDIA is EXACTLY the kind of organization that could make us heard. They are wholly irrelevant except to themselves, though. They are legends in their own minds. They could become legends in their own time if they would seriously call on manufacturers to be responsible and provide equipment that did not require their end users to spend, spend, spend just to make the friggin stuff work.

Could you imagine the type of quality gear and development we had if manufacturers had to pay us for their shit products and design? We would have decent equipment finally...

Oh, yes, in a heartbeat!

Don't anyone think we don't have decent equipment, though. Instead make the point that we have stallions to work with, but somehow so many of them come to us with a leg broken during design. I HAVE wanted to shoot the occasional piece of equipment.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 12 made on Monday September 19, 2016 at 12:29
Fins
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On September 19, 2016 at 11:44, 3PedalMINI said...
More or less, our community just needs to band together and demand quality equipment and standards from this companies, and as a company DEMAND augment for service calls regarding failed and shit equipment. Again, another reason Cedia sucks.

We cant even form a solid consensus on whether IR, 232, or IP control is the most reliable control method. Theres no chance the band of misfits, rejects, and mad scientists in this industry can form a viable protest of any kind toward the manufacturers.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 13 made on Monday September 19, 2016 at 12:46
jrainey
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Wait....let's stay on point here....

HDMI is something that has been thrust upon the CI manufacturing channel as much as it has been thrust upon us....it ain't their fault it doesn't work and some of those manufacturers are working their asses off trying to help us make it work better....

Now the HDMI forum has to negotiate the needs of 77 companies and the major studios to get anything done...and most of these companies don't give a damn about our 2%er business.
Jack Rainey - Full disclosure...reformed integrator, now mid-Atlantic manufacturers rep for: Integra, Paradigm, Anthem, Parasound, Atlona, LG TV's and Metra Home Theater...among others
Post 14 made on Monday September 19, 2016 at 18:35
oprahthehutt.
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If only there was some sort of

Custom Electronic Designers and Installer Association that was able to work with the various Manufacturer, Organization bodies, etc to be the voice of 2%.

They could maybe place calls to LG, Samsung, Sony, HDMI ORG and say something like "Hey Assholes, our organization partners need a reliable interface to send terrible 8K movies distances longer than 3 feet, for less than $9000, and our commercial partners could also use this technology in the very same boardrooms you assholes spend countless hours discussing just how shitty of a capacitor you can place in a power supply shaving .000003 per unit"
Post 15 made on Monday September 19, 2016 at 21:54
buzz
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Speaking of saving money, I wonder how much money Samsung saved with their recent battery deal. I also wonder if the big box stores need to jump through as many hoops as we would need jump through to get our inventory replaced. (Such as individual RMA's and complete accessory kits) Of course, it's unlikely that a phone would need to be pulled off the wall and its replacement mounted at a yet to be determined date.
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