Shall we call bullshit? The facts show you are wrong. Not my facts, but facts because facts, do not know ideology or politics. It's why you shock me being in an industry that relies on facts--physics, math, empirical measurement--when you are clearly inured to them. I posted the facts above. Blacks are 30% more likely to be pulled over on a traffic stop. After being pulled over, Blacks and Latinos are 3 times likely to be searched than whites. Blacks are twice as likely to be shot by police. Blacks are arrested 2x the rate of whites; 75% more likely to be arrested for offenses carrying mandatory minimums and receive sentences for the same crimes that are 10% longer.

You want to speak to ideology and ignore the facts because you wish to remain ignorant, intolerant and, shall we say it, prejudiced. I already linked to a Conservative writer on this story. "These excuses, though, are indicative of an abdication of critical thinking about the legal and proper application of police force that really and truly is endemic in America" Leon Wolf. The link can be found above

Conservatives speak to small government. They speak about the need to hold weapons to confront tyranny. The demand the right to carry those weapons. I guess you ought to admit that it's only for white, Christians since no others can be properly defined as American and so allowed their rights under the constitution.

Final comment, since you are clearly beyond rational talk. You are seeking out excuses for behaviors that cannot be excused. Did you read any of the links I posted? I thought not. You bring up useless information on the 2nd Amendment--as the individual in Minnesota told the police officer--because we have contemporaneous testimony that the officer was told he had a weapon, a permit to carry and his wallet was in his pocket. You don't care.

The truth is only in the middle because you are resistant to facts. You're not alone but it is the case. I quoted Newt Gingrich on the subject. I'm betting you did not read it. Do you read? I am betting you do not. You seek out those who confirm what you think true and that reinforces what you think. So you believe cables effect the sound of music? I did not give you opinions. I gave you facts. I suggested you look at the videos. What is also interesting in Wolf's article is after presenting his case he offers this insight:
"The most important safety valve to prevent violence like we saw in Dallas last night is the belief that when officers do go off the rails, the legal system will punish them accordingly."

Continue to use the distortion to deflect from truth. Continue to use the same sad memes to ignore reality. It's the media. It's the liberals. It's trouble makers. It's whomever you wish to use as the scapegoat of the day: Muslims, Jews, Liberals, Hispanics, Blacks, others. There is a problem. You wish to define it out of the conversation. The OP worried about police. He's right. But he overlooks, as you will not consider, that the basic unfairness with which law is enforced will lead to more violence because it suggests that some parts of society are not included in society.

It's not just about the facts. It's about the resistance to fact by those of us in an industry based upon facts. Or are you one of those who use any wire, of any gage and type and then connect and pray? There are not your facts or my facts. There are facts.

With this I am through.

Thank you to everyone else for keeping the conversations this past week on point and civil.

First off hello all, it's been awhile, I have knee deep in family health issues, and many other distractions, spinning about a half-dozen plates at once. I checked in after search for a link for an automated mount for a client, I started reading threads and this was the second one a read and just about lost my mind....From what I know about those who post most if not all have not worked in a Law Enforcement capacity and have never been in a life and death fight, please if I am wrong correct me. I can’t tell if Mac is just busting balls, but Stanley you are waaay off base here, and your willful ignorance is breathtaking?

In the first incident in Louisiana, I have seen all available video, and while it is tragic that a man had to die, all he had to do is comply with the officers, if you think it’s unjustified or not you are NOT entitled to resist a lawful order. They were not out bored one night looking to kill a black man, quite the opposite more white men are killed by police than blacks, that’s the DOJ/ FBI stats not mine. The Officers were there for a call of a man with a gun, menacing people, he was asked to comply, and he didn’t. One of the officers was trying to control his hand that was in the pocket with the gun, that was the officer that was on top of him, again IF he complies he may well still be alive, but he chooses to continue to fight and this is after being tazed and having no effect. Should they have waited until he shot one of them first? Is that the new standard?

Now the second incident in Minnesota, the woman “live streaming” her boyfriend being shot while going for his permit, turns out he is NOT a permit holder, they checked with the county Sherriff who issues them and since he is a criminal he was NEVER issued one, NEVER applied for one, and would had NEVER been issued one. Now I have seen the video from the store he allegedly robbed and it’s a pretty close match, but his gun was in his lap not in a holster, an inconvenient fact that the girlfriend accidently caught as she was spewing her bullshite. So he is not an innocent angel as she alleges, in fact he was a possible armed robbery suspect in a car that matches the description by the guy that matches the description and when the Officer approaches he sees a gun in the suspected robber lap, yells for him not to go for the gun, does and gets shot, on what planet was he wrong?

My professional opinion, and mine is from someone who has been there and done that, I am retired Police Officer and I HAVE been in these situations and unless you have or unless you were there at the time of the incident you are nothing more than a UNINFORMED Monday morning quarterback.

Incident #1 – They did not control the scene or the suspect, after the tazer was ineffective, in a perfect world they would have stepped back and waited for more officers, but remember they were there for a man menacing folks with a gun and the suspect won’t take his hand out of his pocket, and my GUESS is that they thought they could control him but were wrong, and when the officer got on top of him he felt the gun and was trying to control the hand with the gun and the suspect was able to get his hand either loose or at least on the weapon to where he felt he was going to fire, and you CAN fire a gun through your pants, by the way..From a tactical perspective I question shooting that close to my partner, but he was there I was not and he did what he felt he had to do to live, despite what Stanley wants.

Incident #2 – Does it strike anyone else how calm she was when he got shot with the kid in the back seat? Again my guess from EXPERIENCE, as he approached the car matching the description of a car used ARMED ROBBERY, he also noticed the SUSPECT in the ARMED ROBBERY, was in the car and as he got to the window he noticed a GUN sitting in his lap, tells him not to move, he does, and 5 seconds later she has her camera on to record him doing what? The officer is yelling “why did you do that?” and her all calm and composed for the camera, his emotion was the correct response to the situation her lack of is fake, she immediately was trying to figure out a way to flip this, to garner sympathy and the press is only too eager to please..

Unless you have been in the position of having to defend yourself in a life and death situation where nano-seconds count please do us all a favor and shut the c&$kholster in the lower center of your face. You have NO IDEA what it is like to walk up to a car that you have pulled over knowing full well that the person inside may in fact pulled an armed robbery and be waiting for you to get just close enough to shoot, or it could just be a family out for a nice afternoon ride for ice cream and if your wrong, your life, your career is over, all of this goes thru your mind in the short walk to the car door…..

And you have the balls to tell me you know better, you can go f$&k yourself, I have been there and I have done that and have the scars and shrapnel to prove it, and I have been to too many funerals and more to come, I’m sure. And luckily for you they do it for each other, their families, and your ungrateful ass, and that’s why I retired, because I lost the will to defend the ungrateful and that’s not fair to the guys that are willing to do it, for they are truly better men than me.

First off hello all, it's been awhile, I have knee deep in family health issues, and many other distractions, spinning about a half-dozen plates at once. I checked in after search for a link for an automated mount for a client, I started reading threads and this was the second one a read and just about lost my mind....From what I know about those who post most if not all have not worked in a Law Enforcement capacity and have never been in a life and death fight, please if I am wrong correct me. I can’t tell if Mac is just busting balls, but Stanley you are waaay off base here, and your willful ignorance is breathtaking?

In the first incident in Louisiana, I have seen all available video, and while it is tragic that a man had to die, all he had to do is comply with the officers, if you think it’s unjustified or not you are NOT entitled to resist a lawful order. They were not out bored one night looking to kill a black man, quite the opposite more white men are killed by police than blacks, that’s the DOJ/ FBI stats not mine. The Officers were there for a call of a man with a gun, menacing people, he was asked to comply, and he didn’t. One of the officers was trying to control his hand that was in the pocket with the gun, that was the officer that was on top of him, again IF he complies he may well still be alive, but he chooses to continue to fight and this is after being tazed and having no effect. Should they have waited until he shot one of them first? Is that the new standard?

Now the second incident in Minnesota, the woman “live streaming” her boyfriend being shot while going for his permit, turns out he is NOT a permit holder, they checked with the county Sherriff who issues them and since he is a criminal he was NEVER issued one, NEVER applied for one, and would had NEVER been issued one. Now I have seen the video from the store he allegedly robbed and it’s a pretty close match, but his gun was in his lap not in a holster, an inconvenient fact that the girlfriend accidently caught as she was spewing her bullshite. So he is not an innocent angel as she alleges, in fact he was a possible armed robbery suspect in a car that matches the description by the guy that matches the description and when the Officer approaches he sees a gun in the suspected robber lap, yells for him not to go for the gun, does and gets shot, on what planet was he wrong?

My professional opinion, and mine is from someone who has been there and done that, I am retired Police Officer and I HAVE been in these situations and unless you have or unless you were there at the time of the incident you are nothing more than a UNINFORMED Monday morning quarterback.

Incident #1 – They did not control the scene or the suspect, after the tazer was ineffective, in a perfect world they would have stepped back and waited for more officers, but remember they were there for a man menacing folks with a gun and the suspect won’t take his hand out of his pocket, and my GUESS is that they thought they could control him but were wrong, and when the officer got on top of him he felt the gun and was trying to control the hand with the gun and the suspect was able to get his hand either loose or at least on the weapon to where he felt he was going to fire, and you CAN fire a gun through your pants, by the way..From a tactical perspective I question shooting that close to my partner, but he was there I was not and he did what he felt he had to do to live, despite what Stanley wants.

Incident #2 – Does it strike anyone else how calm she was when he got shot with the kid in the back seat? Again my guess from EXPERIENCE, as he approached the car matching the description of a car used ARMED ROBBERY, he also noticed the SUSPECT in the ARMED ROBBERY, was in the car and as he got to the window he noticed a GUN sitting in his lap, tells him not to move, he does, and 5 seconds later she has her camera on to record him doing what? The officer is yelling “why did you do that?” and her all calm and composed for the camera, his emotion was the correct response to the situation her lack of is fake, she immediately was trying to figure out a way to flip this, to garner sympathy and the press is only too eager to please..

Unless you have been in the position of having to defend yourself in a life and death situation where nano-seconds count please do us all a favor and shut the c&$kholster in the lower center of your face. You have NO IDEA what it is like to walk up to a car that you have pulled over knowing full well that the person inside may in fact pulled an armed robbery and be waiting for you to get just close enough to shoot, or it could just be a family out for a nice afternoon ride for ice cream and if your wrong, your life, your career is over, all of this goes thru your mind in the short walk to the car door…..

And you have the balls to tell me you know better, you can go f$&k yourself, I have been there and I have done that and have the scars and shrapnel to prove it, and I have been to too many funerals and more to come, I’m sure. And luckily for you they do it for each other, their families, and your ungrateful ass, and that’s why I retired, because I lost the will to defend the ungrateful and that’s not fair to the guys that are willing to do it, for they are truly better men than me.

First off hello all, it's been awhile, I have knee deep in family health issues, and many other distractions, spinning about a half-dozen plates at once. I checked in after search for a link for an automated mount for a client, I started reading threads and this was the second one a read and just about lost my mind....From what I know about those who post most if not all have not worked in a Law Enforcement capacity and have never been in a life and death fight, please if I am wrong correct me. I can’t tell if Mac is just busting balls, but Stanley you are waaay off base here, and your willful ignorance is breathtaking?

In the first incident in Louisiana, I have seen all available video, and while it is tragic that a man had to die, all he had to do is comply with the officers, if you think it’s unjustified or not you are NOT entitled to resist a lawful order. They were not out bored one night looking to kill a black man, quite the opposite more white men are killed by police than blacks, that’s the DOJ/ FBI stats not mine. The Officers were there for a call of a man with a gun, menacing people, he was asked to comply, and he didn’t. One of the officers was trying to control his hand that was in the pocket with the gun, that was the officer that was on top of him, again IF he complies he may well still be alive, but he chooses to continue to fight and this is after being tazed and having no effect. Should they have waited until he shot one of them first? Is that the new standard?

Now the second incident in Minnesota, the woman “live streaming” her boyfriend being shot while going for his permit, turns out he is NOT a permit holder, they checked with the county Sherriff who issues them and since he is a criminal he was NEVER issued one, NEVER applied for one, and would had NEVER been issued one. Now I have seen the video from the store he allegedly robbed and it’s a pretty close match, but his gun was in his lap not in a holster, an inconvenient fact that the girlfriend accidently caught as she was spewing her bullshite. So he is not an innocent angel as she alleges, in fact he was a possible armed robbery suspect in a car that matches the description by the guy that matches the description and when the Officer approaches he sees a gun in the suspected robber lap, yells for him not to go for the gun, does and gets shot, on what planet was he wrong?

My professional opinion, and mine is from someone who has been there and done that, I am retired Police Officer and I HAVE been in these situations and unless you have or unless you were there at the time of the incident you are nothing more than a UNINFORMED Monday morning quarterback.

Incident #1 – They did not control the scene or the suspect, after the tazer was ineffective, in a perfect world they would have stepped back and waited for more officers, but remember they were there for a man menacing folks with a gun and the suspect won’t take his hand out of his pocket, and my GUESS is that they thought they could control him but were wrong, and when the officer got on top of him he felt the gun and was trying to control the hand with the gun and the suspect was able to get his hand either loose or at least on the weapon to where he felt he was going to fire, and you CAN fire a gun through your pants, by the way..From a tactical perspective I question shooting that close to my partner, but he was there I was not and he did what he felt he had to do to live, despite what Stanley wants.

Incident #2 – Does it strike anyone else how calm she was when he got shot with the kid in the back seat? Again my guess from EXPERIENCE, as he approached the car matching the description of a car used ARMED ROBBERY, he also noticed the SUSPECT in the ARMED ROBBERY, was in the car and as he got to the window he noticed a GUN sitting in his lap, tells him not to move, he does, and 5 seconds later she has her camera on to record him doing what? The officer is yelling “why did you do that?” and her all calm and composed for the camera, his emotion was the correct response to the situation her lack of is fake, she immediately was trying to figure out a way to flip this, to garner sympathy and the press is only too eager to please..

Unless you have been in the position of having to defend yourself in a life and death situation where nano-seconds count please do us all a favor and shut the c&$kholster in the lower center of your face. You have NO IDEA what it is like to walk up to a car that you have pulled over knowing full well that the person inside may in fact pulled an armed robbery and be waiting for you to get just close enough to shoot, or it could just be a family out for a nice afternoon ride for ice cream and if your wrong, your life, your career is over, all of this goes thru your mind in the short walk to the car door…..

And you have the balls to tell me you know better, you can go f$&k yourself, I have been there and I have done that and have the scars and shrapnel to prove it, and I have been to too many funerals and more to come, I’m sure. And luckily for you they do it for each other, their families, and your ungrateful ass, and that’s why I retired, because I lost the will to defend the ungrateful and that’s not fair to the guys that are willing to do it, for they are truly better men than me.

You will not have much fun around here using "logic" and "rational thoughts" supported by "experience".
I raise a glass to you sir for your service and ability to see thru the smoke and see the incident for what it is (with the info we have - which is not all), not what the media wants it to be.

A few months ago a 18/19 year old black kid was shot by a police officer here. the kid was NAKED and refused to obey orders (he appeared to be high), he started running towards the cop who fired at him and killed him.
Did that make national news?? NO? I'll give you one guess why???

Black cop? Doesn't stir up ratings much.

I thought I had watched the Minnesota shooting video until I read LKII's post. Something about it didn't match what I thought I had watched. So I went and found the footage that was live streamed and realized I hadn't watched it. I heard it discussed on NPR. They played clips from the girlfriend being interviewed afterwards, discussed what happened, and gave a complete different perception. After listening to their discussing, I had the impression that the cop had Philandro get out of the car and go to his cruiser, and shot him on the side of the road. NPR had audio of the girlfriend saying that her 4y/o said "he's gone mommy. He's never coming back" as if when the cops got him out of the car they would never see him again. The mother went on saying "I told her hush, be positive. I always taught her not to be negative about the world. "

Talk about distorting reality or jumping the story before having all the facts.

NPR distorted the truth, I don't believe it...

First off hello all, it's been awhile, I have knee deep in family health issues, and many other distractions, spinning about a half-dozen plates at once. I checked in after search for a link for an automated mount for a client, I started reading threads and this was the second one a read and just about lost my mind....From what I know about those who post most if not all have not worked in a Law Enforcement capacity and have never been in a life and death fight, please if I am wrong correct me. I can’t tell if Mac is just busting balls, but Stanley you are waaay off base here, and your willful ignorance is breathtaking?

In the first incident in Louisiana, I have seen all available video, and while it is tragic that a man had to die, all he had to do is comply with the officers, if you think it’s unjustified or not you are NOT entitled to resist a lawful order. They were not out bored one night looking to kill a black man, quite the opposite more white men are killed by police than blacks, that’s the DOJ/ FBI stats not mine. The Officers were there for a call of a man with a gun, menacing people, he was asked to comply, and he didn’t. One of the officers was trying to control his hand that was in the pocket with the gun, that was the officer that was on top of him, again IF he complies he may well still be alive, but he chooses to continue to fight and this is after being tazed and having no effect. Should they have waited until he shot one of them first? Is that the new standard?

Now the second incident in Minnesota, the woman “live streaming” her boyfriend being shot while going for his permit, turns out he is NOT a permit holder, they checked with the county Sherriff who issues them and since he is a criminal he was NEVER issued one, NEVER applied for one, and would had NEVER been issued one. Now I have seen the video from the store he allegedly robbed and it’s a pretty close match, but his gun was in his lap not in a holster, an inconvenient fact that the girlfriend accidently caught as she was spewing her bullshite. So he is not an innocent angel as she alleges, in fact he was a possible armed robbery suspect in a car that matches the description by the guy that matches the description and when the Officer approaches he sees a gun in the suspected robber lap, yells for him not to go for the gun, does and gets shot, on what planet was he wrong?

My professional opinion, and mine is from someone who has been there and done that, I am retired Police Officer and I HAVE been in these situations and unless you have or unless you were there at the time of the incident you are nothing more than a UNINFORMED Monday morning quarterback.

Incident #1 – They did not control the scene or the suspect, after the tazer was ineffective, in a perfect world they would have stepped back and waited for more officers, but remember they were there for a man menacing folks with a gun and the suspect won’t take his hand out of his pocket, and my GUESS is that they thought they could control him but were wrong, and when the officer got on top of him he felt the gun and was trying to control the hand with the gun and the suspect was able to get his hand either loose or at least on the weapon to where he felt he was going to fire, and you CAN fire a gun through your pants, by the way..From a tactical perspective I question shooting that close to my partner, but he was there I was not and he did what he felt he had to do to live, despite what Stanley wants.

Incident #2 – Does it strike anyone else how calm she was when he got shot with the kid in the back seat? Again my guess from EXPERIENCE, as he approached the car matching the description of a car used ARMED ROBBERY, he also noticed the SUSPECT in the ARMED ROBBERY, was in the car and as he got to the window he noticed a GUN sitting in his lap, tells him not to move, he does, and 5 seconds later she has her camera on to record him doing what? The officer is yelling “why did you do that?” and her all calm and composed for the camera, his emotion was the correct response to the situation her lack of is fake, she immediately was trying to figure out a way to flip this, to garner sympathy and the press is only too eager to please..

Unless you have been in the position of having to defend yourself in a life and death situation where nano-seconds count please do us all a favor and shut the c&$kholster in the lower center of your face. You have NO IDEA what it is like to walk up to a car that you have pulled over knowing full well that the person inside may in fact pulled an armed robbery and be waiting for you to get just close enough to shoot, or it could just be a family out for a nice afternoon ride for ice cream and if your wrong, your life, your career is over, all of this goes thru your mind in the short walk to the car door…..

And you have the balls to tell me you know better, you can go f$&k yourself, I have been there and I have done that and have the scars and shrapnel to prove it, and I have been to too many funerals and more to come, I’m sure. And luckily for you they do it for each other, their families, and your ungrateful ass, and that’s why I retired, because I lost the will to defend the ungrateful and that’s not fair to the guys that are willing to do it, for they are truly better men than me.

What a load of BS.

The man wrote a thought out, detailed post explaining his thoughts and the reasons why he feels that way, and you try to counter it with "what a load of BS"? You must have been captain of your school's debate team.

Want to try explaining why you feel it's BS? Or is that asking too much?

*Oh, and where is the concern about the DPD blowing the guy up with a robot? That right there is more chickenshit LEO BS, let's see the video.