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Topic:
Metra / Ethereal M3B vs. Just Add Power
This thread has 23 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 24.
Post 16 made on Sunday April 10, 2016 at 19:03
Brad Humphrey
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Mario, the problem isn't so much 720p vs. 1080i.
The problem is in the fact that 720p has to be scaled at all, where as 1080i just has to be de-interlaced (and line doubled if a 4K display). The off-the-shelf chips that do scaling in TVs are crap! They are serious crap and always have been - the exception being the old Fujitsu and other high-end displays, that actually used a good scaler in them.
So given a video feed of the exact same thing at the same quality, of 720p and 1080i (on a 1080p or 4K display) = the 720p is always going to look worse. Not because of the resolution itself but because of what these cheap displays (that's ALL current displays on the market) do to the picture when scaled.
Post 17 made on Sunday April 10, 2016 at 23:30
tomciara
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So Brad, you will always set a source device like a cable box or whatever, to anything but 720p?
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
Post 18 made on Monday April 11, 2016 at 08:00
Brad Humphrey
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Usually. I haven't seen any displays properly handle 720p in a long time. Best to avoid it if you can - not possible of course with some setups.

DirecTV can be set to 1080i/1080p output. The 480i channels and the few 720p channels (ESPN, etc.) can be scaled in the DirecTV. This goes back years to the problem of DirecTV taking forever to switch from SD to HD channels if you leave the resolution native. And is usually the case, that the source has the best chance of scaling correctly. Again the exception being those old Fujistu, Elites, DVDO external scalers, etc...
Still the case today to use a DVDO, Lumagen, or other nice scaler to improve the picture quality on these cheap TVs, with a non-native source. Hard to find clients these days willing to pay that much however.
Post 19 made on Monday April 11, 2016 at 20:42
Nded
Just Add Power
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On April 9, 2016 at 15:16, andrewinboulder said...
What is this image push/pull that you speak of?

Image PUSH was a new feature we released in 2013 with a free firmware update. Image PUSH is when the installer is enabled to put a full screen JPEG graphic/picture of their choice onto the Receiver/Decoder behind the TV. This JPEG image will appear on the TV instead of a blank screen in a variety of circumstances:

Scenario 1) The HDMI source goes offline or is powered off - this is particularly helpful when the customer has cable boxes that get frequent updates, as the Image you can PUSH can be a picture of the Cable TV STB with an arrow pointing to the power button, along with a text message on the screen that says something along the lines of this "If you see this picture, go to the rack and push this Power ON button. If that doesn't work, call us at xxx-xxx-xxxx for white glove service". Our control system drivers make it easy for you to push out an image that correlates to the particular problematic sources when they switch video sources. This feature saves an installer from a truck roll when the cable box gets turned off.

Scenario 2) Instead of waiting for the HDMI source to go "down", our control system drivers allow you to show the stored image(s) on demand (you can put a slideshow in the Receiver memory with 20+ slides). This can be used for digital signage purposes. For example, in a sports bar they can push out marketing content during commercial breaks or on target screens in a venue. Some sports bars simply show their logo, others show revenue generating content.

Here is a demonstration video showing Image PUSH in action:



So JAP can or cannot do interlaced signals?

On 2G/2G+ systems, you can use interlaced sources, but in all cases the 720P content will look better than the 1080i content. 2G also supports 480P and 1080P just fine, along with 576P and about 200 other progressive signals.

On 3G, 1080i looks great (mostly because we convert it to 1080p with a good scaler). 3G also works with 4K, along with all of the other formats supported by 2G.
Ed Qualls - Just Add Power - Proud to advertise on and support Remote Central
Post 20 made on Monday April 11, 2016 at 21:06
Nded
Just Add Power
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On April 9, 2016 at 12:07, vwpower44 said...
Perfect. On the 3g and 2g+ you can login to adjust for lipsync.

JAP can go from 4000 inputs to 60000 outputs.

JAP can do a 47x 88, then when the customer wants to add more, its very easy and doesn't require and entire system rebuild.

JAP has 2k and 4k in the same system. 4k downscaling to 2k.

Who the f uses interlace? 720p, 1080p, and 2160p.

JAP has CEC, 232, Network and IR over one CAT5.

JAP has image push and image pull. I use this all the time and it is amazing!!!! Best feature ever!!!

JAP has a sku labelled "Flux Capacitor"

JAP switches video in a single frame rate, so 1/25 of a second.

The encoding is so quick that I saw a BluRay split between a display and a JAP system and you couldn't tell which one was what. They both looked identical in timing.

Video Wall built in.

They also have a Tiling Piece.

The JAP stuff is rock solid. I have hundreds in the field and have not had a single failure.

I am sure Ed while chime in :)

This is starting to get uncomfortable, but I don't know any other way to say this. Unlike Brent, who clearly has not had his hands on the Just Add Power HDIP Solution (otherwise he would not have stated so many incorrect "cons" about our inventions), we have tested the HD over Coax devices (the factory in China tried to get us to OEM them too). I found the concept intriguing, but not something I wanted to put my company name on. The hardware platform and chipset just don't offer any room for us to add the sort of features we would require to make it our own. Given that the HD over Coax devices are now starting to appear on Amazon, I think the race to the bottom will likely kill that product.

That said, if you are looking for a very low cost/low feature solution, the HD over Coax technology is possibly a good match (not everybody can purchase and drive a luxury car or own a luxury home). If you want a high performance, feature packed solution, that is priced competitively for the features/functions, then HDIP by Just Add Power gives more bang for your buck than anything else out there. When we launch the next round of features for 2G/3G at InfoComm, it will only become more valuable.

I've always been told you get what you pay for. I think that is still true.

I'm guessing this thread will be locked soon.

Last edited by Nded on April 12, 2016 18:03.
Ed Qualls - Just Add Power - Proud to advertise on and support Remote Central
Post 21 made on Monday April 11, 2016 at 21:14
Nded
Just Add Power
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On April 9, 2016 at 11:31, Duct Tape said...
Works fine for me. They have buttons on them to adjust the audio delay. I think you can adjust the audio delay via ip commands as well.

The 2G+ and 3G+AVP Just Add Power HDIP Devices have up to 170ms of audio delay on the extracted audio, and yes you can control it on the fly via IP commands (along with the tactile audio delay increase/decrease buttons).
Ed Qualls - Just Add Power - Proud to advertise on and support Remote Central
Post 22 made on Monday April 11, 2016 at 22:57
tweeterguy
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On April 11, 2016 at 21:06, Nded said...
I'm guessing this thread will be locked soon.

I sure hope not. There is more useful info for those not in the know about these systems in this single thread than nearly every thread here at RC. You're both paid advertisers on this site, I believe, and I know I personally welcome your expertise and help. Thanks for weighing in...
OP | Post 23 made on Tuesday April 12, 2016 at 01:12
Mario
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This is great info for both products.

As Chris said, I too hope this does not get locked down.

No one is shilling -- just answering questions about their products.

Civilized, informative exchange of information.

And just as Ed said, both products may have a fit based on system design/requirements and budgets.

Now, if Ed could hook me up with some B-stock, scratch & dent or engineering samples, then I could get the 3G system installed in my home, enjoy it, learn it better and maybe even demo it for the occasional client that comes over.
Post 24 made on Tuesday April 12, 2016 at 01:57
BlackWire Designs
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On April 12, 2016 at 01:12, Mario said...
Now, if Ed could hook me up with some B-stock, scratch & dent or engineering samples, then I could get the 3G system installed in my home, enjoy it, learn it better and maybe even demo it for the occasional client that comes over.

I'd be more than happy to discuss a nice demo deal with you :) a few of us distributors have the ability to offer demo pricing
BlackWire Designs
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