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Topic:
Installer DIY for client versus off the shelf parts
This thread has 14 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Friday April 8, 2016 at 16:29
Ernie Gilman
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I'd like your opinions on two different approaches to providing a client need. We need to provide a simple RF control. This is not a security item, just a minor convenience:

A) purchasing parts and assembling them.
In the case I'm looking at now, parts are surprisingly inexpensive, but would need to be installed in a case and provided with a power supply. It's not Arduino but it's on that level. I can see the parts and labor, mostly labor to make it look professional, easily being $300.

B) purchasing off the shelf products.
This way, a complete chassis that does much more than the client needs would be purchased, hooked up with a few pieces of wire, and programmed. The price for parts and labor will probably be $400 for this approach.

A big difference is that with (B), someone else can come along later and troubleshoot and fix any problems, since there will be corporate documentation and the product is widely available to the industry. I think (B) is the more professional way to approach things, but people are sometimes twitchy about price, even if lower price predicts difficulties down the road.

We've all run into one-off custom jobbies where we had to figure out what the hell the product was and how to make it work again or reinvent it. What is your approach when asked to do something with these two possible ways to go about it?
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 2 made on Friday April 8, 2016 at 17:05
SB Smarthomes
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For $100 more it's a no-brainer to go with the off the shelf products.

I love doing one-off custom stuff, but only take that route if there isn't already something commercially available.
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Post 3 made on Friday April 8, 2016 at 17:26
Mac Burks (39)
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Go with the device that has a warranty provided by someone else.
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Post 4 made on Friday April 8, 2016 at 17:36
Brad Humphrey
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Agree with everyone else. The difference between $300-$400 is not worth trying to build a custom solution for. That's crazy.
I would say the price difference would have to be more than double to justify this. Like the difference between $300 to $700. Even then, it would depend on what the part(s) are going to be used for and what the premade item was.
Post 5 made on Friday April 8, 2016 at 17:45
goldenzrule
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"A good answer requires the make and model of everything."

Can't help you without the needed info.
OP | Post 6 made on Friday April 8, 2016 at 23:48
Ernie Gilman
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This is about philosophy, not about one specific product versus another. The make and model are irrelevant at this point because they will be decided once the approach is decided.

Thanks for the responses. It already seemed to me that buying the off the shelf is the responsible thing to do since, for instance, briremo could service it easily, while the me-DIY approach would get a WTF once he opened it.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 7 made on Monday April 11, 2016 at 01:39
Mario
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For a $300-400 item & installation cost, if the client balks at the price of the item (and it's markup), have them supply it.
You'll handle installation without concerns with warranty, support, etc.

As others have said, the ROI would have to be much greater in either job satisfaction or $$$ for it to make sense going kustom route.
OP | Post 8 made on Monday April 11, 2016 at 03:15
Ernie Gilman
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On April 11, 2016 at 01:39, Mario said...
For a $300-400 item & installation cost, if the client balks at the price of the item (and it's markup), have them supply it.

They're not going to want to purchase the parts and I'm not going to design it for free.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 9 made on Monday April 11, 2016 at 08:37
Brad Humphrey
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On April 11, 2016 at 03:15, Ernie Gilman said...
They're not going to want to purchase the parts and I'm not going to design it for free.

LOL, how do they expect it to work then?
Literally, that would be my words as soon as they said that "How do you expect this to work then?" But I am a bit outspoken, so....
OP | Post 10 made on Monday April 11, 2016 at 12:11
Ernie Gilman
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Wait a minute, Brad: you're criticizing something that isn't on the table. Mario
proposed
For a $300-400 item & installation cost, if the client balks at the price of the item (and it's markup), have them supply it.

I guess my reply to Mario was too gentle: that's a stupid idea. Anything that comes along with considering that approach will be equally ludicrous. And it's not going to happen.

What company not in the installation industry would, for the sake of some price differential in a project this size, even want to consider designing, sourcing parts, and obtaining parts for this project? Yup. Ludicrous.

Why would I lift a finger to design anything if they were going to source the parts and I was only going to get installation labor? Yup, ludicrous.

Again, it's about philosophy, my DIY versus off the shelf parts. Off the shelf parts are the way to go.

There are various cases where new ideas were implemented using off the shelf technology. These include 455 kHz and 1.125 MHz IR carrier frequencies for consumer audio/video products as well as some missile guidance technologies in the 70s. Those companies chose to use stuff that already existed rather than strike out in a new direction and have to invent all the hardware along the way.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 11 made on Monday April 11, 2016 at 13:38
Brad Humphrey
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No Ernie, I was replying to your statement as standalone. I thought you were saying 'your' client won't spend the money for the pre-made part (buying from you), nor would they be willing to pay you the correct amount of money to make a piece either.
So I was commenting over your customer's response. Which may or may not now be the case.

The typed word... no wonder religion can go so many different ways, based on one's interpretation. Love thy neighbor, kill a few million non-believers, meh...
OP | Post 12 made on Monday April 11, 2016 at 13:59
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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So we need not only a sarcasm font, but a joke font, a solemnity font, a pompous font....
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 13 made on Tuesday April 12, 2016 at 01:56
Mario
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On April 11, 2016 at 13:38, Brad Humphrey said...
No Ernie, I was replying to your statement as standalone. I thought you were saying 'your' client won't spend the money for the pre-made part (buying from you), nor would they be willing to pay you the correct amount of money to make a piece either.
So I was commenting over your customer's response. Which may or may not now be the case.

The typed word... no wonder religion can go so many different ways, based on one's interpretation. Love thy neighbor, kill a few million non-believers, meh...

That's how I read it too.

Given a choice of designig DIY, kustom box, vs. purchasing one off the shelf with only a $100 difference is a no brainer.

My suggestion for client sourcing quipment had to do with you stating that the item would be $300-$400 in both parts and labor -- not some multi-thousand dollar project.

Lastly, we all have many examples where client didn't want to pay us retail prices for BD players, TVs, Roku or what-have-ya, and we had the client source it, order it, get it delivered and call us for installation.
On those small price items I always come out ahead by not having to roll the truck for free when something goes wrong.
Those cheap clients paid me to hang a TV, and unless the TV is laying on the floor, anything else is no longer my problem.
Any support now becomes a billable time and another source of revenue.
Post 14 made on Tuesday April 12, 2016 at 01:57
Mario
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Speaking of client's provided equipment; I just saw (haven't read it yet) CEPro cover page with something about company going away from installation and only providing service.
OP | Post 15 made on Tuesday April 12, 2016 at 02:58
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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Mario,
Again, I wanted to talk about the choice of approach, DIY vs off the shelf, and really nothing more.

This particular project is custom. The client cannot imagine how to make it happen. Hell, when I talked to some suppliers of product for this project, they couldn't imagine how to make it happen. That's why the idea of them buying it doesn't fit this discussion.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw


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