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Control4 Auto grouping players when using matrix
This thread has 12 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Thursday March 17, 2016 at 14:18
3PedalMINI
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Control4/4 Sonos connects going into Zektor 16x16 matrix. If i select rooms and add them all it will take all 4 sonos connects and group them together. which obviously doesnt work if their daughter is listening to her own stream in her room.

Dads Sonos
Moms Sonos
Daughter1 sonos
Daughter 2 Sonos

then dumped into the matrix VIA Coaxial output and input on zektor 1-4

I cannot for the life of me get the sonos players to not group

Help!
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
Post 2 made on Thursday March 17, 2016 at 14:30
Impaqt
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On March 17, 2016 at 14:18, 3PedalMINI said...
Control4/4 Sonos connects going into Zektor 16x16 matrix. If i select rooms and add them all it will take all 4 sonos connects and group them together. which obviously doesnt work if their daughter is listening to her own stream in her room.

Dads Sonos
Moms Sonos
Daughter1 sonos
Daughter 2 Sonos

then dumped into the matrix VIA Coaxial output and input on zektor 1-4

I cannot for the life of me get the sonos players to not group

Help!

I'm seeing the same problem with Buesound.

I was told there was a workaround for Sonos, you should call Tech support, but there might not be.

My last communication with Bluesound and C4 on the issue was a couple months ago now. Just talked to my rep about it today though and hopefully we'll here more soon.
Post 3 made on Thursday March 17, 2016 at 15:25
Audiophiliac
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I am trying to understand what you mean from what you said. :)

You say that when you Add all rooms, it groups all the rooms. Perfect. That is what you wanted it to do.

Then you say, you want it to NOT add a room. Well the obvious answer would be to not select the room you want to not be a part of the group when you add rooms.

Am I missing something? Are you asking if there is a way for the C4 system or the SONOS system to ignore a grouping request if a room is already in use? As far as I know, no. The thing between the ears of the person in control is the only thing that can make that happen. :)
"When I eat, it is the food that is scared." - Ron Swanson
Post 4 made on Thursday March 17, 2016 at 16:16
Impaqt
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Heres whats going on in a simple 4 zone scenario.

4x4 C4 Matrix
Sonos 1 in Input 1
Sonos 2 in Input 2

Zone 1 wants to listen to Spotify through a sonos box so they select Spotify on Sonos #1 Perfect.

Someone n Zone 2 wants to listen to the same thing. So they go to zones and add zone 2 to zone 1.

this SHOULD simply add the stream thats being fed to input 1 on the matrix to Both Zone1 AND Zone 2. Sonos 2 should still be Idle

INSTEAD, Control4 GROUPS the 2 Sonos boxes and Sonos 1 feeds Zone 1 and Sonos 2 gets routed to Zone 2.

this doesnt matter much until Someone in Zone 3 wants to listen to TuneIn Radio on Sonos 2 which SHOULD be idle.

Instead, the 2 sonos's get ungrouped, shutting off sound to zones 1 AND 2 so Zone 3 can listen to TuneIn.

Its a major pain because no mater how you select the sources, if 2 or more zone are playing the same thing, C4 is Grouping instead of Matrixing the one box.

Add more zones and more sonos's(Or bluesounds) and the problem compounds.
Post 5 made on Thursday March 17, 2016 at 16:37
crosen
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What version is the Control4 system on? This is a known issue that was resolved in a somewhat recent release.
If it's not simple, it's not sufficiently advanced.
Post 6 made on Thursday March 17, 2016 at 16:45
Audiophiliac
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Got it Impaqt. Thanks for clearing that up.
"When I eat, it is the food that is scared." - Ron Swanson
OP | Post 7 made on Thursday March 17, 2016 at 17:14
3PedalMINI
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On March 17, 2016 at 16:37, crosen said...
What version is the Control4 system on? This is a known issue that was resolved in a somewhat recent release.

2.8.1

Very very frustrated. I guess it makes sense because the way C4 does sonos is it's a "virtual" matrix so I can see how the logic could be screwed up, but it's not like this is the first sonos/matrix system and were on 2.8.1 now...

Anyone know the workaround so I don't have to call TS?
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
Post 8 made on Thursday March 17, 2016 at 17:20
osiris
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Control4 is aware of this issue, and it is absolutely not something that has been fixed on their end yet. I recently had our regional tech guy on-site working on a system with an identical issue, and it is not something that is alive. The fix is in "beta", and at least in my experience, the latest version of the "beta" as of about 2 weeks ago had not solved the issue.
Post 9 made on Thursday March 17, 2016 at 17:38
Audiophiliac
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Seems like it should be pretty straight forward. It has to do with the grouping logic built into the SONOS driver. If they just remove that part, and let the standard C4 matrix logic take over.

In fact, older versions of the driver included 2 different drivers for the SONOS players. One was specified as "Groupable" and one was "Un-groupable" or something like that. I cannot remember if it was v.7.x.x when they changed everything up and released the newer driver, and then of course V8 is all new.

They will figure it out I am sure. Those EV guys with the accents are pretty clever. Hopefully they are still on board after the buyout.
"When I eat, it is the food that is scared." - Ron Swanson
Post 10 made on Thursday March 17, 2016 at 21:50
Jeff at Zektor
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Call us if you need anything.
Jeff Haynes
The CA Guy
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OP | Post 11 made on Friday March 18, 2016 at 12:05
3PedalMINI
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On March 17, 2016 at 17:20, osiris said...
Control4 is aware of this issue, and it is absolutely not something that has been fixed on their end yet. I recently had our regional tech guy on-site working on a system with an identical issue, and it is not something that is alive. The fix is in "beta", and at least in my experience, the latest version of the "beta" as of about 2 weeks ago had not solved the issue.

Is it worth calling into C4 and trying the beta fix?

As a work around I could just pull out the rooms, do a generic "CD" input and have them go to sonos app for the time being, however I would like to keep them in the C4 Eco system for obvious reasons...
The Bitterness of Poor Quality is Remembered Long after the Sweetness of Price is Forgotten! - Benjamin Franklin
Post 12 made on Friday March 18, 2016 at 14:07
Audiophiliac
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You may be able to "trick" C4 logic into thinking something is happening that is not actually happening. I have a feeling this would not work, but maybe you get lucky. Build an audio switch driver with only analog audio in and out. Bind your SONOS outputs to the inputs, and the outputs to your matrix switch. Test. Bang head on table. :)

I had to do similar workaround trying to force the HC800 to never use HDMI for an audio source. There were 2 drivers C4 sent me (I could have built them myself easy enough). One took HDMI in, and only had component video out. No audio. The other had component in, HDMI out. This essentially removed the audio path from the HDMI output on the HC800 so that the C4 logic would not try to use it for an audio output. It is all trickery. Maybe some of it would be useful here.
"When I eat, it is the food that is scared." - Ron Swanson
Post 13 made on Friday March 18, 2016 at 19:31
cshepard
Advanced Member
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767
I thought there was a way to "break" the Sonos "matrix" within the driver in C4?
Chris


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