Are any of those systems non-neutral Homeworks Wireless systems?

I have 50+ non-neutral dimmers in my house and finding LED's that play nice with them has been hard. I am using Cree's right now with moderate success, but still not like incandescents. So haven't put them where I have scenes with low light levels because they tend to "pop" on brighter than I want.

But in areas where low dimming is not an issue, they have worked pretty well even at absorbing the leak-through current to power the dimmer. Some of the early LED's caused the dimmer LED's to flash. The newer ones do not.

Of course looking back, that $10 I saved per dimmer over the neutral ones wasn't worth it.

Being fair, was ten bucks per dimmer the only amount you saved?

If you did not previously have neutrals to the switch boxes, cost could have been astronomical. If it was new wiring, there still would be a cost to run additional neutrals. Wire installation labor would have been fractionally more, but more nonetheless. Design time would be another cost.

Yes I had neutrals in the boxes. And since it was a self-install, labor was free. :)

At one time, someone posted a white paper (Ernie?) on LEDs that explained the problems with controlling low voltage LEDs with high voltage dimmers. If memory serves, it said the only way to get true LED dimming is with something like what Ernie described or a DMX controller

Was this it? [Link: google.com]

Are you guys in the US able to buy Megaman products? I've just tried out 6 GU10 lamps with 2800k colour temperature that when dimmed go down to 1800k. They look nice, if a little wide on beam angle. I'd say 10% is the lowest they'll go, but lovely warm halogen like feel to the light it has to be said.

Going to try the Philips 'dim to warm' models soon.....

That's an excellent white paper. Thanks for the share

Well the Philips warm glow bulbs dim like piss. The color temp is def closer to an incandescent but the two stage effect is quite noticeable. The utilitech bulbs actually dim really smooth and down quite low. I'd say overall even though its a noticeably higher color temp bulb the dimming experience is pretty damn good for a $8 bulb. The only thing to make the dimming experience perfect would be a little bit slower ramp on to full brightness instead of instantly being there. I kinda like how incandescants ramp up a tad slower but for some this might not be a concern. I made some decent video comparisons i'll have to upload to youtube and post a link.

[Link: lutron.com]

Just ran into a problem at my house. Added two cans to my family room. I currently have a neutral dimmer in place with two 65w equivalent EcoSmart LED's from Home depot. They work OK, dime to about 15-20% and always turn off. So I added to more cans to the room. Put in regular IC Can lights and then the same exact EcoSmart 65w equivalents in. When I turn the dimmer off, the two original ones go off, the two new ones dim down, then flicker and never go off. Exact same LED, yet the two new ones don't work. I put them in another room in my house and they just flicker when turned off. So something happened in the last 6 months since I bought the first set. I wen back to home depot and bought 4 Philips, 4 GE and 4 Cree. All of them would not turn off when the dimmer is off. Some flicker and some just dim.

WTF. This is so annoying. I replaced every light in my house about 6- months ago with the EcoSmart LED's. Why can I not get the two new ones to function properly. I also moved two old ones from my kitchen to the family room so I had four olds ones on that load....they all worked fine. I also put the new ones in my kitchen, and they don't go off and just flicker in there too. I am ready to throw in the towel and just buy some halogens, but the Home depot by me doesn't stock the halogens, just LEDS and CFLS.

Any ideas? Anyone know what is going on? I am so done with LED's.

do they turn back on at 10% too?

if your ok with a color temp that is more white then a regular incandescent the utilitech bulbs seem to dim really well for a cheap bulb. i can dim them down to like 2% probably and its smooth the entire way down. To get full dim on them I did have to adjust the low end trim on my lutron casetas. If your lights don't turn off with the dimmer off you need to adjust low end trim. Hopefully your dimmers allow for this. If they don't then your kinda screwed there. Flicker generally is caused from a driver that isn't as good of quality or your trying to dim below its capable range. You see these led's have two parts. the light and the driver. The driver is what controls dimming, flicker and is what matters. It's all the electronics that make it work and convert 120V ac down to low voltage DC. Read that lutron white paper that was posted in the link. You'll learn a ton. Also some bulbs are registered or whatever term the white paper called it so a year later it still has to use the same parts same driver etc. Some aren't. So in your case the newer bulbs you got probably have a different or updated driver which is why some flicker so don't. hope this helps. and yes leds can be a pain. trial and error I'm finding. It helps to buy all at the same time so you don't run into issues later buying what you think is the same bulb but internals are diff. I know not always doable and what if one shits the bed.... buy spares from the get go? lol.

I feel your pain. I have avoided LEDs in my own work, and even have hesitated in my own place when some twenty feet of RGB LED strip sort of fell into my lap.

But keep your eyes open and for now, treat the LED industry like a one-off circus. Despite HUGE steps forward over the last several years, the LED industry is still in its infancy (unless, it seems to me, you are spending huge amounts of money).

That bit about drivers being registered -- if I understand that correctly, that would allow you to know whether today's model XYQ LED driver might be identical to last year's model XYQ LED driver. That does not solve all the problems, as for instance if that driver is discontinued, but it's a step forward.



Yes, I had neutrals in the boxes. And since it was a self-install, labor, as well as time spent figuring this stuff out, all got added onto the already huge pool of unrecoverable miscellaneous small-business overhead. :)

Aside from saying that you have non-neutral dimmers, you didn't mention which brand/model of dimmers you are using.

If they are Lutron, then consult Lutron's master list of LED bulbs that they have already tested and scored.

[Link: lutron.com]

Even if they are another brand of dimmers, this resource is a great starting point.

Rick, I am using the RA6ND. Radio Ra Classic.