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OT: Here's a GREAT start to an Apple VS everybody else argument!
This thread has 14 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Thursday September 10, 2015 at 10:55
Ernie Gilman
Yes, That Ernie!
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Apple fanboy describes how Apple takes the inventions of other people, waits a few years, refines them, introduces them, then seems to have invented the entire idea.

[Link: hijinksensue.com]

Scroll down to "As an unapologetic Apple fanboy," and read from there. May Hijinks ensue!
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
"The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- G. “Bernie” Shaw
Post 2 made on Thursday September 10, 2015 at 11:33
gwstudios
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I have been in the Apple ecosystem for years and I do like the way all of the products come together with handoff, app syncing etc... they all work like one device, just with different resolutions.

I will agree that Apple is usually the last to bring out features that have been around for years. They do take good ideas executed badly by other companies and turn then into something "new".

Take the Apple Pencil. Embedded sensors calculate angle and you can even use the "side" of the point just like you would a regular one. In the end, it is still a stylus, but it has it's own rechargeable battery and transmits its position and orientation at all times.

Samsung made a huge deal about the "Dick Tracy" Gear watch and sold next to none with a 30%+ return rate. Apple comes out a year later with what I now consider to be an unfinished product with no camera that still outsells everybody combined.

Watch OS 2.0 is what it should have been from the start, but t least everyone can upgrade easily and for free. If you watched the keynote, they are focusing on professional health (mom & baby sensors) and fitness over all. The goal is to make it a tool and not an expensive toy.

I know Apple is going for the Wacom high end 3D rendering tablet market with the iPad Pro, but they are also shooting for medical, aviation and other fields.

In short, Apple has been late to the party with a lot of hardware, but they focus on specific markets when they do. As you can tell by yesterday's event, it is all about professionals now. The AppleTV is all about entertainment, but I like the way they combined the mobile gaming apps to work with it and hand off to your mobile device when you leave.

Of course, it will still be the only popular streamer with IR control. I think someone in out industry was sitting down in that design meeting and convinced them it was still needed.

The whole family uses Apple, and we have certain features enabled, such as "Find My Friends" so we all know where everyone is at all the time. First time I used it was when I was picking my daughter up at a concert venue packed with thousands of teens covered in paint (Paint Wars). It was accurate to about 5 feet.

You could definitely classify me as a "fanboy", but I do think Apple thinks things out to bring all the products together like no other company. I would have loved to see Samsung pursue Tizen and get away from Android all together. The app support was thin, and as you can see Windows Mobile is not doing so hot without it either.

I don't mind any fanboy who has made an objective decision from actual experience. It is those people who have never used Android products and spout nonsense or vice versa who are embarrassing. You think smart phones are bad? The video game console flame wars are way more entertaining.
Post 3 made on Thursday September 10, 2015 at 16:46
KeithDBrown
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They are almost always the last to the party, but they are always the best dressed, the most interesting, the sexiest and the only one everyone remembers the next day.


It is a great business model if you can pull it off.

It really makes things like suing other companies for using rounded corners seem incredibly hypocritical, but I guess they are defending their strength. Making products that look, feel and act...right.
Post 4 made on Friday September 11, 2015 at 01:01
ErikU
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Well, they did come up with the first usable smart phone.

Prior to the original iPhone, I was using a HTC smart phone that was the best in the biz, and is was terrible... laughable really. Total POS. Trying to make a simple seven digit phone call was a seriously difficult. Often I would have to pull out the stylus just to dial the number. Looking at a map required pulling over and stopping, as there was just no chance of doing that while driving.

Then the iPhone was released. It truly was amazing. The touch screen worked perfectly,.. and well... everything worked perfectly. Everyone I showed it to (in a high-tech industry even) was quite impressed.

This was years before the first android phone.

Now,.. I'll be the first to admit.. the chances of pulling off something like that every year are about zero.
Post 5 made on Friday September 11, 2015 at 01:45
Mac Burks (39)
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"Last to the party" "last to bring out a feature"

This is only because Apple spent years setting the party up...then a couple of party crashers copied what they saw and started adding things no one needs like HDMI ports on a cell phone. Hows that rounded edge touchscreen working for you? Is that the super special feature you thought it would be? Must be sad working over at samsung trying to figure out where to go next...maybe a 13" tablet?

Claiming the other guy beat them to it is like claiming that the car detail guy built a better Cadillac when all he did was hung an air freshener from the mirror.

"takes the inventions of other people"

This goes to show you how backwards someones thinking can get. Let's roll back to the iPod. Yes there were music players yes there were music services but it took someone with a brain to create a fully featured and functional product and service that would (and still does) be easy to use so that it could dominate the industry.

iPhone...Who exactly was it that had this technology years before apple? No one. You had a market where the sidekick was the most popular device for everyone except old men who had their assistants manage their blackberry for them.

iPad...All those garbage tablets on the market for a dozen years until finally someone with a brain took that pile of bricks and mortar and turned it into something with value.

iMac...look around at the all-in-ones...they are all cheap copies of the iMac.

Filling up your junk product with the latest of everything doesn't make it cutting edge...it makes it unfinished. Having 1 processor generation older than the current one in a device that works is a finished product.
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Post 6 made on Friday September 11, 2015 at 01:48
Mac Burks (39)
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So MS invented the keyboard built into the cover...

ZAGGmate's iPad1 accessory (and thousands of other makes/models before the surface existed....begs to differ.

[Link: amazon.com]
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Post 7 made on Friday September 11, 2015 at 03:02
edizzle
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On September 11, 2015 at 01:01, ErikU said...
Well, they did come up with the first usable smart phone.

Prior to the original iPhone, I was using a HTC smart phone that was the best in the biz, and is was terrible... laughable really. Total POS. Trying to make a simple seven digit phone call was a seriously difficult. Often I would have to pull out the stylus just to dial the number. Looking at a map required pulling over and stopping, as there was just no chance of doing that while driving.

Then the iPhone was released. It truly was amazing. The touch screen worked perfectly,.. and well... everything worked perfectly. Everyone I showed it to (in a high-tech industry even) was quite impressed.

This was years before the first android phone.

Now,.. I'll be the first to admit.. the chances of pulling off something like that every year are about zero.

Android was started in 2003, purchased by Google for $50m in 2005. all for the sole purpose of creating a smart phone. they had a prototype by 2006 and shipped the phone in 2008.

The iPhone was released in 2007

Last edited by edizzle on September 11, 2015 03:10.
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Post 8 made on Friday September 11, 2015 at 03:08
edizzle
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On September 11, 2015 at 01:45, Mac Burks (39) said...
"Last to the party" "last to bring out a feature"

This is only because Apple spent years setting the party up...then a couple of party crashers copied what they saw and started adding things no one needs like HDMI ports on a cell phone. Hows that rounded edge touchscreen working for you? Is that the super special feature you thought it would be? Must be sad working over at samsung trying to figure out where to go next...maybe a 13" tablet?

Claiming the other guy beat them to it is like claiming that the car detail guy built a better Cadillac when all he did was hung an air freshener from the mirror.

"takes the inventions of other people"

This goes to show you how backwards someones thinking can get. Let's roll back to the iPod. Yes there were music players yes there were music services but it took someone with a brain to create a fully featured and functional product and service that would (and still does) be easy to use so that it could dominate the industry.

iPhone...Who exactly was it that had this technology years before apple? No one. You had a market where the sidekick was the most popular device for everyone except old men who had their assistants manage their blackberry for them.

iPad...All those garbage tablets on the market for a dozen years until finally someone with a brain took that pile of bricks and mortar and turned it into something with value.

iMac...look around at the all-in-ones...they are all cheap copies of the iMac.

Filling up your junk product with the latest of everything doesn't make it cutting edge...it makes it unfinished. Having 1 processor generation older than the current one in a device that works is a finished product.

i dont think anyone would argue that apple is not good at what they do and their products arent polished and well done, but to say they dont copy Android is silly. The last 4 major revisions to iOS were literally adoption of existing Android features!!!!
I love supporting product that supports me!
Post 9 made on Friday September 11, 2015 at 03:08
Daniel Tonks
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On September 11, 2015 at 01:45, Mac Burks (39) said...
Must be sad working over at samsung trying to figure out where to go next...maybe a 13" tablet?

To be fair, that's exactly what the iPad Pro is... a 12.9" tablet to compete with the competition's 12.0" tablet. :)

Claiming the other guy beat them to it is like claiming that the car detail guy built a better Cadillac when all he did was hung an air freshener from the mirror.

But did Cadillac invent the car?** The internal combustion engine? Tires? GPS? Air bags? Or are they taking technologies and concepts available to others, and putting their own spin on them in a refined way?

As I see it, Apple doesn't really develop/invent any particular technology or even concept. What they do... is develop a product by combining and perfecting a product category that others have typically botched up or simply don't know what to do with. And, once their marketing machine has made it a must-have item, everyone else copies their designs.

That's still no mean feat, and requires a keen eye to know where the market is heading. When the iPad first came out, I seem to remember it getting a lot of scorn... too big to carry around with you compared to a cell phone, and too impractical to use compared to a laptop. Now look at tablets - they're everywhere. I got two sitting next to me now (one iPad and one Windows 8 - I think they're secretly duking it out over WiFi).

** Fun fact: Cadillac likely did invent the modern car sedan concept, with the 1905 Osceola, the first closed car design.

Post 10 made on Friday September 11, 2015 at 03:20
Mac Burks (39)
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On September 11, 2015 at 03:08, Daniel Tonks said...
To be fair, that's exactly what the iPad Pro is... a 12.9" tablet to compete with the competition's 12.0" tablet. :)

That was my joke. Samsung "won" because they have a 12" tablet that would never have existed without the iPad to copy. Now a 12.9" iPad is out and Samsung will create a 13" to "win" again.

But did Cadillac invent the car?** The internal combustion engine? Tires? GPS? Air bags? Or are they taking technologies and concepts available to others, and putting their own spin on them in a refined way?

No but neither did the detail guy. And if you had to make a list of whos spins mattered most...would it be Cadillac or the detail guy? Apple or Samsung? Samsungs list of accomplishments are all copies of apple devices. Having a faster processor or a larger screen first doesn't mean they are a pioneer.

As I see it, Apple doesn't really develop/invent any particular technology or even concept. What they do... is develop a product by combining and perfecting a product category that others have typically botched up or simply don't know what to do with. And, once their marketing machine has made it a must-have item, everyone else copies their designs.

No one invents anything. A portable music player has existed since i have been alive. Making the content digital doesn't change the other 99% of the product. Sony's walkman has everything the first iPod had except the content came on tape.

That's still no mean feat, and requires a keen eye to know where the market is heading. When the iPad first came out, I seem to remember it getting a lot of scorn... too big to carry around with you compared to a cell phone, and too impractical to use compared to a laptop. Now look.

** Fun fact: Cadillac likely did invent the modern car sedan concept, with the 1905 Osceola, the first closed car design.


Want to know who created the coupe first? Some guy years before the automobile existed. He attached horses to it to make it go.
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Post 11 made on Friday September 11, 2015 at 03:23
Mac Burks (39)
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On September 11, 2015 at 03:02, edizzle said...
Android was started in 2003, purchased by Google for $50m in 2005. all for the sole purpose of creating a smart phone. they had a prototype by 2006 and shipped the phone in 2008.

The iPhone was released in 2007

“Holy crap,” he told a colleague, “I guess we’re not going to ship that phone,” ~Andy Rubin

[Link: bgr.com]
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Post 12 made on Friday September 11, 2015 at 20:30
King of typos
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Samsung is mostly a hardware company, sure they have some software.
Microsoft is mostly a software company, sure they have some hardware.

But there comes Apple. Apple is both a hardware and software company.

Yes, Microsoft and Apple both helped each other in the early years. But what platform was Microsoft Word, Excel on first? Apple products, example Mac OS and hardware. Why didn't Microsoft build Word, Excel for their operating system first? I haven't figured that out yet, except for maybe the fact Apple's hardware is able to do handle the processes of MS Word/Excel. Whereas the hardware the MS OS was on, which we all know aren't MS to begin with. Especially back in the early 90's when MS Word/Excel came out.

Now it's 2015, and MS yet again made another retention of MS Office specially for Apple's iPad Pro. Why? Because of hardware. Again, MS doesn't have much of an hardware and it has failed on trying to enter the smartphone business.

KOT
Post 13 made on Saturday September 12, 2015 at 01:30
ErikU
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Not that I really want to wade in too deep here... but... I will make a couple points:

The iPhone was to market well before android. The early android phones were terrible, but they did improve vastly over time.

Don't forget that Samsung did lose that lawsuit with apple over copying many iphone features. That was several years ago tough. Now.. at this point, all these companies copy each other.
Post 14 made on Saturday September 12, 2015 at 03:49
Regg85
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The real question is how Apple is and will affect the av/automation industry? I don't think it's going to be a case of Microsoft's Lifeware. I've kept Homekit in my sights. I am waiting for that angry phone call from a certain client wondering why they just paid 3500 bucks for a lutron/rti package and wondering why they can't use Siri. Plus, given the fact that Apple offers content (Apple TV and the death of the cable box and matrix switch).
Post 15 made on Saturday September 12, 2015 at 11:18
gwstudios
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I don't believe HomeKit will put a dent in CI sales. I don't think they actually get it, and by that I mean waving your hands around with a Kinect-like, voice control, even that ridiculous remote that has no buttons. You pick it up, hold it 90 degrees perpendicular and twist it to perform certain functions.

Hard buttons are still wanted by some, but touch screens have been widely accepted due to the success and low price of smart phones and tablets. Even the Microsoft Kinect days of being used as a gaming motion controller are over. It is basically a webcam for live broadcasting as they find ways to force it into other games to keep it relevant.

Cort cutting and consolidation sounds great, but I need to have my DirecTV, AppleTV and gaming systems all separate. I am fairly sure the wealthier clients who can afford this gear will not be looking for a one box video solution any time soon. HomeKit will slowly phase out over time and I think CarPlay will probably be a dud too. Almost every new vehicle comes with Bluetooth integration, optional GPS and satellite radio. Having your texts read aloud while driving sounds great, but is one of those features that you would probably use a few times and forget about.

Also consider that commercial control (large bars & restaurants) is so specialized and complicated, the only solution is custom integration and a decent size touch screen. And to all the people who say "I'll just use the iOS apps to control all my gear"... have fun with that.

Smart TV app, DirecTV app, Remote app for AppleTV, Smart Glass for XBOX, Nest app, and another for Lutron or Sonos. 16 screen presses and swipes to do one simple macro function with proper gear. I said it before and I will say it again. A proper demo can close just about any sale. You need to show a simple single room solution with a lower priced hard button / touch screen and a multi-room solution on something tablet sized.

If anyone brings up HomeKit, just remind them this has been tried many times and has always failed. BTW, I remember that very well done LifeWare booth at CEDIA in Denver. That was about the time Toshiba convinced me HD-DVD was superior to Blu Ray and was going to win the format war. I still have every demo disc they (Toshiba, Sony and Dolby) gave out, sealed.


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