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Topic:
Showroom and Sonos
This thread has 27 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 28.
Post 16 made on Friday September 4, 2015 at 23:38
highfigh
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On September 4, 2015 at 15:06, Trunk-Slammer -Supreme said...
Both of those Nazi organizations are usually only after people playing music for entertainment purposes.

Bars, restaurants, etc, etc.

In your showroom you would be demonstrating how the system works. I do believe that's a different animal.

They want money from anyone who uses licensed music in their business as a way to profit. The place I started working audio had a few visits from them and we just told them to pound sand, but that was in the late-'70s, so they weren't as militant about it.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 17 made on Saturday September 5, 2015 at 18:21
tomciara
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Note to anyone reading this thread: None of the respondents here are attorneys, so nothing here should be construed as legal advice. Please consult your attorney or the appropriate licensing organization for facts.
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
Post 18 made on Saturday September 5, 2015 at 19:16
Mario
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Is your space residential or commercial?
If 2nd, then you need to pay for commercial use of copyrighted material.
Hell, as a homeowner with a demo system I should be paying if I showcase my music system to potential client.
I of cause only play non copyrighted material when potential clients come over :-)
Post 19 made on Saturday September 5, 2015 at 19:39
Fins
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I had a client that claims he told one of their reps to send him a list of all the artists the artists they represent and he would make sure he never played any of them in his establishment. He never heard from them again
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 20 made on Monday September 7, 2015 at 22:50
vwpower44
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Didn't an ex nuvo employee try to turn in a Sonos dealer to ASCAP/BMI a couple of years ago? I remember hearing about it somewhere. Never heard what happened.
Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish...
Post 21 made on Tuesday September 8, 2015 at 08:08
Total Control Remotes
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It's actually pretty simple. Are you playing licensed music for the general public? Playing, meaning that you have a speaker system that is constantly piping out background music. If so, you may be subject to licensing fees. If you own a bar, restaurant, retail store, etc. make it your business to pay the royalties (if even possible). In some cases you may need special accounts and hardware. If you are a commercial site that is of smaller stature and you are playing background music, you should check with legal and have them read the ASCAP / BMI disclosures and see if you fit the bill. If you are selling SONOS systems or some other streamer service it is not the same thing as entertaining customers with background music.
Post 22 made on Tuesday September 8, 2015 at 08:38
KeithDBrown
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On September 8, 2015 at 08:08, Total Control Remotes said...
It's actually pretty simple.... If you are selling SONOS systems or some other streamer service it is not the same thing as entertaining customers with background music.

Do you have any sort of citation or information directly from ASCAP or BMI to that effect, because I couldn't find any such exemption listed on either website? Their licensing definitely covers more than just background music, so it may not be as simple as you think.
Post 23 made on Tuesday September 8, 2015 at 10:02
Cole Seaver
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Everyone has great points on this topic. However, when dealing with copyright material such as audio and you are using this copyrighted material to sell something for a profit, you must pay a fee. Like I said earlier, the odds of being confronted by ASCAP, BMI or SESAC will be very little. They tend to only go after the larger venues.
Below is a Q and A from ASCAP's website.

I'm interested in playing music in my restaurant or other business. I know that I need permission for live performances. Do I need permission if I am using only CD's, records, tapes, radio or TV?


Yes, you will need permission to play records or tapes in your establishment. Permission for radio and television transmissions in your business is not needed if the performance is by means of public communication of TV or radio transmissions by eating, drinking, retail or certain other establishments of a certain size which use a limited number of speakers or TVs, and if the reception is not further transmitted (for example, from one room to another) from the place in which it is received, and there is no admission charge. Your local ASCAP licensing manager can discuss your needs and advise how ASCAP can help you.
Post 24 made on Tuesday September 8, 2015 at 12:59
sirroundsound
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Which of course brings up the other side of things, showing Video content to sell a system. That FBI warning probably says enough to suggest you shouldn't be showing whatever great DTS clip you like to use to demo a system.

What about at Cedia, do manufactures pay because they are using music to demo their systems in a very large venue?
Post 25 made on Tuesday September 8, 2015 at 14:02
Cole Seaver
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I would say yes. However if they don't pay for it, odds are because they don't know they need to. If ASCAP, BMI and SESAC have not said anything to you, I wouldn't worry about it. Wait till they come to you. They always give a warning first.
ASCAP, BMI and SESAC are businesses that hold vary large library's of music. The bad thing about them is when you do decide to pay for ASCAP and you think you are covered, the moment you play a song that is not in ASCAP's library but in BMI's library, you will need to pay BMI as well! Its an on-going thing with them.
If you look at the back of any CD, you will see that all of the songs are not registered through ASCAP. They normally are 50/50 between ASCAP and BMI. SESAC is seen in a lot of Spanish music and educational music.
Post 26 made on Wednesday September 9, 2015 at 08:51
KeithDBrown
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On September 8, 2015 at 14:02, Cole Seaver said...

If you look at the back of any CD, you will see that all of the songs are not registered through ASCAP. They normally are 50/50 between ASCAP and BMI. SESAC is seen in a lot of Spanish music and educational music.

The more you dig into this the more it feels like the obfuscation is intentional...it is just that convoluted. That said there is no reason to make it confusing. If it were easy to understand and easier to pay for most people would do it. But in the end business owners feel like they are being ripped off because it is hard for them to wrap their minds around exactly where their money is going.
Post 27 made on Wednesday September 9, 2015 at 11:43
tomciara
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Reports that the person who wrote the legalese previously worked for the IRS may have been slightly exaggerated…
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
Post 28 made on Wednesday September 9, 2015 at 13:49
Fred Harding
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Interesting discussion. My two cents: 1. Installers are not the guys that ascap, bmi and sesac are pursuing. It's venue owners. 2. The vice president at bmi indicated they had not lost a suit 3. The urban myth that Fins passes on is amusing.
On the West Coast of Wisconsin
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