Is anyone else having Just Add Power power supply issues? We are having a massive failure rate and have to keep rolling trucks to swap out power supplies.

We have to keep asking our disty for more and more units.

Supposedly this used to be the case. How long have the units been in service? We use nothing but PoE. Why use anything other than PoE?

Long story short.

We had a good supplier for power supplies for a while.

One day, they turned bad on us - really bad, like 90%+ failure rates in the field.

We fired them and went in search of a better supplier.

We ended up picking the same company that makes power supplies for Cisco IP phones.

When a dealer calls for power supplies, we send them out right away, free of charge, no questions asked. Usually we throw in a couple spares as a courtesy.

Can't un-ring the bell, or put the cow back in the barn, but we can do whatever it takes to get the dealer good replacements ASAP.

If you can think of anything else we can do, let me know.

NOT SUPPOSEDLY

We had this issue as well. At first we thought it was a fluke then nearly every unit failed. Our problems were on the 2G product before PoE units came out. We installed 5 systems that for the most part were 8x8 with one being 8x14 within the first couple of months using the product. Everything worked flawlessly at first. Then within about 3-4 months of being installed, the failures started. JAP sent out new power supplies at first but when you have to roll a truck a half dozen times within a month for different tvs or sources though out the house, clients tend to get very upset. We even had failures on the replacements. We had several projects bid that included JAP that were yet to be installed and after about the 10th power supply we substituted with other products. Also, it was not just the power supplies, we had several of the TX/RX units fail as well. These were replaced by JAP too but not reliable enough for us.

I've heard great things about the PoE product and to give them credit, they did send out replacements when we called. But to have a 70-80% failure rate on a product is a no go for us to stay in business and a no go for us to maintain a relationship with said manufacturer.

I wish JAP the best of luck with the new 4K product.

Oh yeah, there was something else we could do. We are making the new 3G UltraHD over IP models exclusively in POE form factor. However, they do have a power supply port, but not like any port you may have seen before. The port accepts any DC power supply from 4.7v to 23v. No more fried motherboards when the installer accidentally plugs in a 12v power supply into a 5v socket.

Before I start, let me say that there's no reason why a manufacturer (JAP, for instance) should have their names on their power supplies.

Nded,
I'm guessing you've already lost your shirts on those older power supplies, but you've also taken quite a hit as to reliability.

I bet the defective supplies are all marked with the manufacturer's name. I bet the new supplies are marked with the new manufacturer's name. You're likely to lose even a bit more shirt with this idea, but why not tell us which supplies we should proactively replace, and which ones are the new ones? And/or the period of dates of sales where your dealers should be concerned? Your dealers could not only be prepared when they roll a truck, but could schedule rolls during quiet times to go out and replace supplies likely to go bad.

AT LEAST you should tell us how to identify at a glance the supply brand and model that has gone bad and the brand and model of the good ones.

Kudos on making your product able to withstand just about any input voltage. A really stooopid thing about power supplies that don't have your name on them* is that you pretty much have to tape the supply to the unit if you take it out of service, or you're going to lose track of what is for what.


*I mean this generically. You can have ten components that you've taken out of service, and ten supplies, and while the supply's output will be labeled, very often the component won't be labeled as to its power requirement, and often not even as to polarity of the power connector.

Okay, sure, supplier problems. No worries. You've now got it under control. But are you reimbursing dealers for R/R labor?

No. That's not how this industry works.

Vendors supply hardware and expect dealers to make it work (read recent CEPro article).

Customers expect dealers to make their systems work.

Dealers play in the middle ground, flirting with uncertain profitability due to issues both from manufacturer and/or client end. Nobody ever holds manufacturers accountable, and many manufacturers seem genuinely uninterested in making amends (or arrogantly believe they don't have to even if they released a shit product). It's easy to just go find another dealer to sell to if one "causes too much trouble".

One notable exception is that Snap had a bad batch of the WattboxIP units. Besides free advance replacements, they offered a $100 account credit per affected unit. Now, that doesn't really cover a service call, but it sure beats nothing.

As for JAP, we had all but one power supply fail at a job more than 3 hours away (one way). I had the foresight to order a replacement receiver and transmitter and take them up with me when I went, not knowing what the issue might be, and never hearing of the power supply issue. Of course it was the power supply issue and I only had two power supplies with me. Fixed part of the problem, but then had to order additional power supplies and ask my client (very nicely) to swap them himself since we were unable to allocate another 8-10 hours of unpaid labour including travel time + gas for the 6+ hour round trip. Now naturally, ordering replacement power supplies was very easy because the distributor KNEW there was a problem, but didn't think informing dealers was important. Nor did they tell me anything when I told them SPECIFICALLY that I was ordering these units as "service spares" for a remote location project. I would have expected, with a known power supply issue, they would have (1) told me about said issue and (2) included extra power supplies so that I could swap ALL power supplies on this job proactively.

we had some power supplies fail on a boat that is in Dubai.  i just assumed that they had something happen to the power system on the boat.  i shipped him POE versions of each Tx and Rx unit on my dime.  it would be disappointing to learn that this boat had these faulty power supplies in them and I didn't know about the issue.  The boat is about 2 years old and these power supplies only recently failed.  I have to follow up with the guy to see if he shipped the old parts back yet.

Got a message last week that a display had no picture in an AVR zone. Had the client reboot the SG300 switch and the result was the loss of an additional, direct to display zone. Stopped out Friday to find local Rx to AVR ps was kaput- although the LED on the PS was lit. The direct Rx zone seemed to have lost PoE capability after the reboot. Luckily, we have 8-9 newer ps's on hand- returned with 2 and he's back up and running. I already pitched the bad ps but can offer specs, and perhaps a model # on the newer units tomorrow. The most I can offer right now is- the new ps's are half the size and have no LED. Ironic timing in relation to this thread, but extremely confident in JAP's support to pull us through this. Sorry to hear the above mentioned jobs are 3 hours to other continents away!

I'm not gonna lie, I'm a bit concerned after reading this thread. I JUST sent paperwork Friday to become a JAP dealer and will be using it on our first project which will have 6 sources and 10 displays. The main reason for choosing JAP was the feedback I read on forums about it being dead reliable.

I've got two large projects in Riyadh and I awakened two or three months ago to the fact that we have a couple of 12VDC supplies in each system which, if failing, would make the system not work properly. Fortunately, this was an awakening of the fact, not an awakening to a phone call for an 8,000 mile service call!

A couple of the supplies I had bought in Riyadh, and those worried me the most. On the last trip we added standard CCTV-type power supply connections to everything, even the one hard-wired Extron supply we use, so power supplies could be easily changed out. We already had extras on site but now they're quickly changeable.

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Manufacturers need to know that a power supply that fails is zero difference from a component that fails. If either fails, the product is trash.
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I call on Nded once again to inform people who have their product as to which brand and model power supplies have failed and which are the replacements.

I don't have a dog in this particular fight and i am not a dealer or user of Jap (yet). My comments here are about failures like this that happen with many products from crestron batteries to urc rf issues to rti white screens you name it.

Electronics fail. It is what it is. We experience the issues more than the average joe because its what we do. I understand that niche market products seem to suffer more but the reality is that $1 power supplies fail just like $1mil super cars.

I think i have covered the fact that we all KNOW or should KNOW that the stuff we sell is going to fail from time to time. Sometimes its one bad board on 1 Apple iPhone and sometimes its a whole crate filled with 10,000 power supplies that are paired with JAP products. Now that we know what we as consumers/dealers/manufacturers have no control over...lets talk about what we do have control over.

When you sell hardware you should have a list of who buys your gear. Especially with most of the products in our industry.

When dealers call for support their incidents should be logged.

When a significant number of the same issue gets reported its time to investigate and discover the issue.

Provide replacements for dealers and change out the part or packaging or whatever so the issue is fully resolved.

For the most part i think that manufacturers do these things. I had a power related issue with a product that was installed 2 years ago. Last month i called in about it and the manufacturer sent me a replacement free of charge because at some point the discovered it and updated firmware to resolve the issue.

Awesome! is how i felt but then i realized why i became aware of the defective product. Client called me with cable box issues that i just could not figure out remotely even though i have a rack PC with total access to all of my devices etc. I had to make a site visit to discover that the device was defective even thought it appeared to be working. I power cycled it and couldn't get it to come back on. So even though the product is being replaced at no cost and i can replace it while im here making updates to the system anyway...the failure is a wedge between me and my client in terms of faith that i am the right person to use on the next house.

What would have been nice is an email blast 2 years ago or 6 months ago...whatever...that made me aware of the issue they discovered so that i could resolve it. No one should have to show up at remote central to discover that they are part of a hardware failure club. Just because my clients T2-C is working fine it doesn't mean i wouldn't be interested in knowing that someone elses has a known flaw. With crestron batteries a few years ago we had 4 brand new model touchscreens go into a project and 1 failed...then another then another until all 4 failed over a two week period. That debacle almost cost us a 6 figure sale.

Bottom line is that i would like to be notified when an issue is discovered so that i can update firmware or proactively pursue replacement power cords or batteries. I get an email blast when one of my $60 web templates has a discovered flaw and a link to download the free updated/patched file.

I totally agree with Mac. Recently, I discovered an issue when pairing certain new Yamaha receivers with certain new Sony 4k tv models. I contacted both Sony and Yamaha tech. support. Both acknowledged they knew of an issue because of a coulple of similar reports from other dealers. Both acknowledged they were working on diagnosing and solving the issue. But when I asked how I would be able to know when the problem was corrected and what I needed to do to correct it for my clients, I was met with awkward silence. One party said he thought they had a place for dealers to be notified of such things but could not tell me where to find it. The other just said to wait a few weeks and call back in and ask someone.

I understand that admitting there is an issue with a product with your name on it is tough. But not admitting it, and letting all of your dealers learn the hard way is tougher. I know a lot of us have been victims of product failures over the years. Some of us hold grudges and will still not buy another product from someone because of what we went through 10 years ago just out of spite.

Just tell us! That is alll we want. Some honesty. If we need to replace 50 power supplies because you bought ones that turned out to be duds, rather than send replacements as the calls come in, be forthcoming. I know you can look up how many we bought from you. Send us a box of that many power supplies with an explanation. Then we can take care of it up front before problems arise. I would much rather make a free service call to replace a power supply because it will eventually fail than to make a free service call to replace one that died and pissed off my client. :)

I have been amazed that manufacturers cannot tell which of their customers have purchased which products, and my amazement at that started in the eighties! Software could easily have a lookup of this information to at least tell whether a particular distributor buys a particular product.

This, to me, is the most important thing that manufacturers should take away from this discussion, with added italics:

This opens me to product from competitors of the product that failed, even though they solved the problem. Want me to keep buying your stuff? Make stuff that doesn't fail. Then when reality bites and it does fail, get off your ass and tell me about it before the client does!


Please: nobody in manufacturing or distributing claim that this isn't possible.

Go back and reread Mac's entire post. It's worth savoring because he packs A LOT of detailed information in very few words.


That is, it is possible to fix things this way, even on a freakin' sixty buck product.


This is not spite. It is a result of experience. We have found that very few people come forward, call attention to a problem, then solve it responsibly. This biases us against just about anybody who has done this, especially after we hear "Oh, we've never heard of that problem before." That sentence is death to a customer service relationship and it should be banned by all customer service departments.

But it's also nearly impossible for our brains to learn that this kind of failure really is random, so we hold grudges when it's not reasonable to expect failures to repeat.