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Topic:
Dear IT guy, don't touch my stuff!
This thread has 72 replies. Displaying posts 61 through 73.
Post 61 made on Saturday July 25, 2015 at 14:30
Anthony
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On July 22, 2015 at 15:42, Fins said...
When I went by to see what was wrong, I was reminded that I put a warning sticker on the router that stated the network contains static addresses and altering the router or replacing it could cause system failures.

The idiot thought if he reset the router and put it back the same way I had it, he should be fine. Yet he was guessing at what that configuration included

so there was a warning label stating you use static IP addresses and the guy did not give a second thought that it could cause an issue? That is not an IT guy, just an idiot.
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Post 62 made on Saturday July 25, 2015 at 14:52
Anthony
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On July 23, 2015 at 17:33, goldenzrule said...
You leave full documentation, programming files,

yes, my theory is that if the client wants to use someone else later they should be able to, maybe it is because we are good but I don't feel the need to keep them hostage.

computer programs to actually program equipment, training classes, dealer access phone numbers to tech support....?

I sure hope so or else you are screwing your clients in the event you die

you are just being ridiculous. The answer is no to those because all those things are available to him and generic and not part of the custom job I did. I don't own the SW to program the remote and don't have the right to make copies for him, I am not there to train anyone to do the job (but if the guy wants to pay me for training I am all for it). The client did pay me (to keep it simple) for a remote that has the interface I designed and can control the equipment he had at the time. And so if (like mentioned before) he changes from cable to sat, I think it is just fair that he can choose to use us to change that one piece of equipment programming or one of my competitors.
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Post 63 made on Saturday July 25, 2015 at 14:55
Anthony
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On July 24, 2015 at 00:54, roddymcg said...
Many of us sell this documentation to the client and leave it onsite since they paid for this. We leave it with the other plans of the house.

Is this not normal?

it is for us. I get the feeling that for some it is about "job security" - or keeping the client hostage-if the guy needs to change one element of the remote it will be expensive to go with a competitor since he will need to start from scratch so it makes a compelling argument to the client to stick with the original CI firm hat might only need minutes to update the remote.
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Post 64 made on Saturday July 25, 2015 at 15:02
Anthony
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On July 24, 2015 at 10:47, Mario said...
You're kidding, right?
How the hell do you expect me to leave documentation with a manager that changes every 3 weeks for a job that's commissioned and OWNED by an owner in another state, on a system that's regularly updated AND PROGRAMMED REMOTELY?

You're either an engineer, a DIY'er or a truck slammer ... all of which are the same low lifes in the eyes of struggling "stereo guys" :-)

you don't, paper doc (wiring diagrams...) is left in the equipment wrack. programming and such is mailed to the person that contracted you.
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Post 65 made on Saturday July 25, 2015 at 15:06
roddymcg
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On July 25, 2015 at 14:55, Anthony said...
it is for us. I get the feeling that for some it is about "job security" - or keeping the client hostage-if the guy needs to change one element of the remote it will be expensive to go with a competitor since he will need to start from scratch so it makes a compelling argument to the client to stick with the original CI firm hat might only need minutes to update the remote.

I go by the theory that if someone bought and paid for something they get it, all of it including the documentation.

It then becomes my job for them to want to call me back for service and upgrades. If they do not I have failed at my job. No way in hell I am going to keep anyone hostage. My gut tells me the guys making all the noise about this just are not that good.
When good enough is not good enough.
Post 66 made on Saturday July 25, 2015 at 15:21
Anthony
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On July 24, 2015 at 12:36, highfigh said...
One reason to NOT leave a copy is: people take them. If it's just to see how someone else does this work, that's one thing but it could also be used as a template by a competitor. Another reason: people move things and don't put them back where they were found, so it may ne "lost" at some point.

Yes they can be lost, but that is up to the owner/client and I can't do much about it (but I do takpe the docs inside the equipment closet so there is less chance of loosing it, but if it does get lost that is the clients own fault.

I can see the "competitor" issue with config files (and we debated it for a while but decided to "trust" peoples integrity and if a competitor ever stole from us we would go after them) , but not for simple docs what will the guy steal? that cable H5 goes from device X output X1 to device Y input Y1?

but a master file for each client makes replacing these very easy.

agree we keep a copy of every install we do.
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Post 67 made on Saturday July 25, 2015 at 15:26
Anthony
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On July 24, 2015 at 15:16, goldenzrule said...
So isn't that an issue with the management at the business and not with fins? Obviously they did not ask to have that included in the contract. You're blame should be directed at the company for failing to ensure they had their documentation.

depends, for us it is policy.
Either way, I doubt it would have changed anything. The guy didn't read a sticker, I'm sure he's not gonna research and look for documentation.

agree 100%


Also, unless I missed it, I didn't see where Fins said all IT guys (again, unless I missed it)

well he does tend to look at all IT guys that way.
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Post 68 made on Saturday July 25, 2015 at 15:34
Anthony
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On July 24, 2015 at 19:47, Fins said...
Have you ever thought about why we so often come down on engineers and IT guys? We didn't hold a secret meeting and vote to pick on you for our amusement. It's because of a pattern that has been established.

same reason we bash the designer or people talk about the bad CI or the bad mechanic....... the bad ones are more memorable and more interesting to talk about.

Take it this way. If the "IT guy" in this case was not an idiot, read what you wrote and checked the config and what static IP addresses you programmed this whole thread would not exist and you and I might not have herd have heard of that good IT guy.
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Post 69 made on Saturday July 25, 2015 at 15:40
Anthony
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On July 25, 2015 at 15:06, roddymcg said...
I go by the theory that if someone bought and paid for something they get it, all of it including the documentation.

It then becomes my job for them to want to call me back for service and upgrades. If they do not I have failed at my job. No way in hell I am going to keep anyone hostage. My gut tells me the guys making all the noise about this just are not that good.

that is how I see it as well
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Post 70 made on Saturday July 25, 2015 at 18:27
goldenzrule
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On July 25, 2015 at 14:52, Anthony said...
yes, my theory is that if the client wants to use someone else later they should be able to, maybe it is because we are good but I don't feel the need to keep them hostage.

you are just being ridiculous. The answer is no to those because all those things are available to him and generic and not part of the custom job I did. I don't own the SW to program the remote and don't have the right to make copies for him, I am not there to train anyone to do the job (but if the guy wants to pay me for training I am all for it). The client did pay me (to keep it simple) for a remote that has the interface I designed and can control the equipment he had at the time. And so if (like mentioned before) he changes from cable to sat, I think it is just fair that he can choose to use us to change that one piece of equipment programming or one of my competitors.

You leave the programs to program equipment? Crestron, AMX, Savant, C4, URC, RTI...? Last I checked, those are NOT available to the public (with the exception of CCP for URC, though its not downloadable directly from URC for the public).

I'm just trying to point out he was getting on Fins when I'm sure he doesn't leave every client with the ability to do whatever he wants, when he wants, himself. I have no issue providing a FILE to a client. In fact, I just did a takeover job in which I had to reprogram a RadioRa2 system for a client where the original installer did not provide it to them, and they were not happy with them. They did not provide them with the info that they could and should download the Home+ app to set their events. Basically they installed the lutron system, programmed it and added events, and left, giving the client no access to it. I informed the client from the get go that I will provide them with the file so this will not happen again. If I get run over by a bus, the next guy can come in and just add another dimmer if they want one, no issues. I also set them up with the app and trained them how to use it, happy as can be now.

Software, however, I will not provide. If the client wishes to use us and the systems we recommend and install, then we proceed, and if they would like the file, ok. Software is not intended to be available to the public, and where I am concerned, it will remain that way.
Post 71 made on Sunday July 26, 2015 at 14:04
Anthony
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On July 25, 2015 at 18:27, goldenzrule said...
You leave the programs to program equipment? Crestron, AMX, Savant, C4, URC, RTI...? Last I checked, those are NOT available to the public (with the exception of CCP for URC, though its not downloadable directly from URC for the public).

did you bother to read my post?

you quoted me already answering that
[quote][b]The answer is no[/b] to those because all and not part of the custom job I did.[b] I don't own the SW to program the remote and don't have the right to make copies for him[/b][/quote]

I think you might have gotten a bit bogged down by "those things are available to him and generic " (from reading the rest of your post.). I did not mean to imply they are easily available to the public (when we were doing ta lot of Prontos that would have been true). What I meant is if he does manage to get a hold of it (from somewhere else) and he wants to tweak it himself I think it should be up to him, and if he decides to hire a competitor that has the SW to tweak our config, I am OK with that as well.
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Post 72 made on Sunday July 26, 2015 at 20:54
highfigh
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On July 24, 2015 at 19:47, Fins said...
Have you ever thought about why we so often come down on engineers and IT guys? We didn't hold a secret meeting and vote to pick on you for our amusement. It's because of a pattern that has been established.

I've never claimed to be a networking expert. But I do have a working understanding. That's the difference in a CI and all other trades. We have to understand all of the subsystems. Audio, hvac, electrical, networking, and in some cases plumbing. And ultimately, I understand to keep my hands off of the other contractors systems.



And not enough people do.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
OP | Post 73 made on Sunday July 26, 2015 at 21:13
Fins
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On July 26, 2015 at 20:54, highfigh said...


And not enough people do.

Mr Weller (his special reserve) and I agree
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

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