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Dear IT guy, don't touch my stuff!
This thread has 72 replies. Displaying posts 31 through 45.
Post 31 made on Friday July 24, 2015 at 00:19
Wozman
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Trying to get in touch with the original installer is always the first and best option, I was talking about the times when that is just not possible for a multitude of reasons. I've heard everything from 'I lost his number' to 'I can't call him because he's in rehab and doesn't have access to a phone'. One time a client even told me that he wanted to 'make sure that he (original installer) can't access the system, I don't want him spying on me - I don't like the way he was looking at my wife'. Another client wanted me to 'change everything, I don't want any of the old stuff' because she had just gone through a nasty divorce and all the tech was chosen by her ex and it reminded her of him and needed it gone (she must've made off with quite a good chunk of his money because she went all out).

Now just know here that I dont just come in and think I know it all and rip everything out, replacing it with my gear with no regard for the existing equipment. I'm a CI by day (and night sometimes - actually most nights, as I'm a sucker for a good problem that needs solving). I have a heavy IT background, hence the quotes when I said 'IT Guy' but no matter what your background is, I think we can all agree that when touching someone else's gear its always best to check, or if possible contact the original installer to see how/if what you'll be doing will impact the existing setup.

In the cases where you can't, either use kid gloves and try to work around the existing setup, or be thorough and make sure you cover all the bases. And rule number one always is 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it!'
Post 32 made on Friday July 24, 2015 at 00:54
roddymcg
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On July 23, 2015 at 19:30, goldenzrule said...
Well I am talking about you, not Fins. Since you are on his ass about leaving full documentation, I am guessing you leave everything I mentioned, right?

Many of us sell this documentation to the client and leave it onsite since they paid for this. We leave it with the other plans of the house.

Is this not normal?
When good enough is not good enough.
OP | Post 33 made on Friday July 24, 2015 at 01:02
Fins
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On July 24, 2015 at 00:19, Wozman said...
Trying to get in touch with the original installer is always the first and best option, I was talking about the times when that is just not possible for a multitude of reasons. I've heard everything from 'I lost his number' to 'I can't call him because he's in rehab and doesn't have access to a phone'. One time a client even told me that he wanted to 'make sure that he (original installer) can't access the system, I don't want him spying on me - I don't like the way he was looking at my wife'. Another client wanted me to 'change everything, I don't want any of the old stuff' because she had just gone through a nasty divorce and all the tech was chosen by her ex and it reminded her of him and needed it gone (she must've made off with quite a good chunk of his money because she went all out).

Now just know here that I dont just come in and think I know it all and rip everything out, replacing it with my gear with no regard for the existing equipment. I'm a CI by day (and night sometimes - actually most nights, as I'm a sucker for a good problem that needs solving). I have a heavy IT background, hence the quotes when I said 'IT Guy' but no matter what your background is, I think we can all agree that when touching someone else's gear its always best to check, or if possible contact the original installer to see how/if what you'll be doing will impact the existing setup.

In the cases where you can't, either use kid gloves and try to work around the existing setup, or be thorough and make sure you cover all the bases. And rule number one always is 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it!'

That was the problem, no effort was made up front to contact me. But as soon as he broke it, he found my phone number real quick. Oh, and I have since learned, he was there because the management installed a drop cam and it won't work on their .6Mbps upload. He could have checked that first too instead of starting over with a router.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 34 made on Friday July 24, 2015 at 08:34
musictoo
Active Member
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537
TW added a "power save mode" for the boxes in our area (upstate NY). Turns the boxes off after 4 hrs if it sees no remote input. There is a setting under Timers to turn it off.

On July 22, 2015 at 21:20, Mac Burks (39) said...
Ugh...we have a project where the cable boxes all of a sudden started to behave differently For a couple of years they just stayed on. No discretes of course. Then one day they are all off. Site visit consists of pressing power button on cable boxes. It happens again 2 days later and again a day after that. We ended up putting a POWER toggle on the cable menu page so they can try that first before calling. We got 1 more email about it happening again but before i could troubleshoot the client wrote back saying "i was able to get it to turn on with the new POWER button.
Post 35 made on Friday July 24, 2015 at 08:43
highfigh
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On July 24, 2015 at 08:34, musictoo said...
TW added a "power save mode" for the boxes in our area (upstate NY). Turns the boxes off after 4 hrs if it sees no remote input. There is a setting under Timers to turn it off.

That happened a long time ago.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 36 made on Friday July 24, 2015 at 10:44
Mario
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On July 24, 2015 at 00:19, Wozman said...
Trying to get in touch with the original installer is always the first and best option, I was talking about the times when that is just not possible for a multitude of reasons. I've heard everything from 'I lost his number' to 'I can't call him because he's in rehab and doesn't have access to a phone'. One time a client even told me that he wanted to 'make sure that he (original installer) can't access the system, I don't want him spying on me - I don't like the way he was looking at my wife'. Another client wanted me to 'change everything, I don't want any of the old stuff' because she had just gone through a nasty divorce and all the tech was chosen by her ex and it reminded her of him and needed it gone (she must've made off with quite a good chunk of his money because she went all out).

Now just know here that I dont just come in and think I know it all and rip everything out, replacing it with my gear with no regard for the existing equipment. I'm a CI by day (and night sometimes - actually most nights, as I'm a sucker for a good problem that needs solving). I have a heavy IT background, hence the quotes when I said 'IT Guy' but no matter what your background is, I think we can all agree that when touching someone else's gear its always best to check, or if possible contact the original installer to see how/if what you'll be doing will impact the existing setup.

In the cases where you can't, either use kid gloves and try to work around the existing setup, or be thorough and make sure you cover all the bases. And rule number one always is 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it!'

Thanks for clarifying, and, well said.
Now you're back in the boys club... yes, for a second there, you were on your way out.
Now, to find the other post from that dwarf.
Post 37 made on Friday July 24, 2015 at 10:47
Mario
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On July 23, 2015 at 12:37, BizarroTerl said...
What? Wait? ??? Someone would install a router + equipment and not have the entire install fully documented? What is this, kindergarten?

You're kidding, right?
How the hell do you expect me to leave documentation with a manager that changes every 3 weeks for a job that's commissioned and OWNED by an owner in another state, on a system that's regularly updated AND PROGRAMMED REMOTELY?

You're either an engineer, a DIY'er or a truck slammer ... all of which are the same low lifes in the eyes of struggling "stereo guys" :-)
Post 38 made on Friday July 24, 2015 at 11:07
Trunk-Slammer -Supreme
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On July 24, 2015 at 10:47, Mario said...
You're either an engineer, a DIY'er or a truck slammer ... all of which are the same low lifes in the eyes of struggling "stereo guys" :-)

Hey, wait just a minute! I see a BAD reference there.... ;-)





For Fins:


Do you really hate it when a IT nerd messes with your "stuff", are are you actually into that sort of thing? :-)


Banjo is playing....LOL
Post 39 made on Friday July 24, 2015 at 11:52
BizarroTerl
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579
On July 23, 2015 at 19:30, goldenzrule said...
Well I am talking about you, not Fins. Since you are on his ass about leaving full documentation, I am guessing you leave everything I mentioned, right?

I'm not in the CI trade. I'm in the trade Fins appears to have little respect for and even less knowledge of. By his logic if there's one idiot CI installer then they're all idiots.

I've managed IT for several organizations and SOP is that everything is documented fully. If a vendor is contracted, full documentation requirements are in the contract and no payment is made until everything is signed off. We pay for the work and we own the documentation. If there is a CI install at a site it isn't exempt from these requirements. This isn't limited to vendors. All systems/network/software/etc are fully documented.

People leave. Vendors go out of business. Running IT for an organization requires the management of increasingly complex mix of vendors, technologies, business systems, system integrations, and employee interactions. Documentation is a cost control measure and even more importantly it is critical to minimize business disruptions. We don't compromise that to satisfy someone's ego.

So I guess you can say that yes, when I leave a organization IT is fully documented. Will the highest level of management realize this? Possibly. I can guarantee you that my replacements do. Unless of course, they're some idiot IT guy. ;)
Post 40 made on Friday July 24, 2015 at 11:57
BizarroTerl
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On July 24, 2015 at 10:47, Mario said...
You're kidding, right?
How the hell do you expect me to leave documentation with a manager that changes every 3 weeks for a job that's commissioned and OWNED by an owner in another state, on a system that's regularly updated AND PROGRAMMED REMOTELY?

You're either an engineer, a DIY'er or a truck slammer ... all of which are the same low lifes in the eyes of struggling "stereo guys" :-)

You seem to feel threatened by engineers, DIY'ers and truck slammers (whatever those are). I guess I must be a big threat as I do have an engineering degree, I do DIY things, I have a truck (don't need to slam the doors though) and I even have a stereo. I may be a low life too, depending on what you define as a low life.
Post 41 made on Friday July 24, 2015 at 12:13
bcf1963
Super Member
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2,767
On July 24, 2015 at 11:52, BizarroTerl said...
I'm not in the CI trade. I'm in the trade Fins appears to have little respect for and even less knowledge of. By his logic if there's one idiot CI installer then they're all idiots.

I've managed IT for several organizations and SOP is that everything is documented fully. If a vendor is contracted, full documentation requirements are in the contract and no payment is made until everything is signed off. We pay for the work and we own the documentation. If there is a CI install at a site it isn't exempt from these requirements. This isn't limited to vendors. All systems/network/software/etc are fully documented.

People leave. Vendors go out of business. Running IT for an organization requires the management of increasingly complex mix of vendors, technologies, business systems, system integrations, and employee interactions. Documentation is a cost control measure and even more importantly it is critical to minimize business disruptions. We don't compromise that to satisfy someone's ego.

So I guess you can say that yes, when I leave a organization IT is fully documented. Will the highest level of management realize this? Possibly. I can guarantee you that my replacements do. Unless of course, they're some idiot IT guy. ;)

I really want a "Like" button for this posting!
Post 42 made on Friday July 24, 2015 at 12:36
highfigh
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Someone, somewhere, wrote or typed a document with system details. Whether the owner/manager gets that is up to the job/bid and requirements set forth at the beginning. If someone is required to hand over the design at some point in the project and they don't, it's likely that this will be the last job they do with that designer/archi/builder/client. If the project is large, it's very unlikely that someone thought about the IT design for a few minutes, offered a price for the work, supplies, equipment, setup and instruction and just did everything from memory. If it took a while to get approval to start working after the bid, someone should have been looking at some kind of document, to make sure they can still do the job at that price.

One reason to NOT leave a copy is: people take them. If it's just to see how someone else does this work, that's one thing but it could also be used as a template by a competitor. Another reason: people move things and don't put them back where they were found, so it may ne "lost" at some point.

Any documents should be handed to the owner of a house/small business or the facilities manager of a large plant but a master file for each client makes replacing these very easy.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
OP | Post 43 made on Friday July 24, 2015 at 14:21
Fins
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On July 24, 2015 at 11:52, BizarroTerl said...
I'm not in the CI trade. I'm in the trade Fins appears to have little respect for and even less knowledge of. By his logic if there's one idiot CI installer then they're all idiots.

I've managed IT for several organizations and SOP is that everything is documented fully. If a vendor is contracted, full documentation requirements are in the contract and no payment is made until everything is signed off. We pay for the work and we own the documentation. If there is a CI install at a site it isn't exempt from these requirements. This isn't limited to vendors. All systems/network/software/etc are fully documented.

People leave. Vendors go out of business. Running IT for an organization requires the management of increasingly complex mix of vendors, technologies, business systems, system integrations, and employee interactions. Documentation is a cost control measure and even more importantly it is critical to minimize business disruptions. We don't compromise that to satisfy someone's ego.

So I guess you can say that yes, when I leave a organization IT is fully documented. Will the highest level of management realize this? Possibly. I can guarantee you that my replacements do. Unless of course, they're some idiot IT guy. ;)

For clarification, trunk slammers are hacks that work out of the trunks of their cars. My frustration with "IT guys" is that very few are professional or have what I would call a real company. Your field is worth than ours about being riddled with idiots that figured out how to print a business card and watch a couple YouTube instructional videos. Two major problems with these IT trunk slammers. One, they don't think about how their actions may affect other parts of the network. They just do, then start trying to fix. The second problem, it's very common that they want to move into the CI side because it looks more fun. So they will go in and just start screwing with anything (like an $80k lighting system).

Personally, I prefer to have a skilled IT contractor involved on my projects. my network skills are mediocre at best. I much rather sit down with a competent IT contractor, give him my list of needs, have him give me a block of IP addresses and we work together, without stepping on each other's toes.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 44 made on Friday July 24, 2015 at 15:16
goldenzrule
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On July 24, 2015 at 11:52, BizarroTerl said...
I'm not in the CI trade. I'm in the trade Fins appears to have little respect for and even less knowledge of. By his logic if there's one idiot CI installer then they're all idiots.

I've managed IT for several organizations and SOP is that everything is documented fully. If a vendor is contracted, full documentation requirements are in the contract and no payment is made until everything is signed off. We pay for the work and we own the documentation. If there is a CI install at a site it isn't exempt from these requirements. This isn't limited to vendors. All systems/network/software/etc are fully documented.

People leave. Vendors go out of business. Running IT for an organization requires the management of increasingly complex mix of vendors, technologies, business systems, system integrations, and employee interactions. Documentation is a cost control measure and even more importantly it is critical to minimize business disruptions. We don't compromise that to satisfy someone's ego.

So I guess you can say that yes, when I leave a organization IT is fully documented. Will the highest level of management realize this? Possibly. I can guarantee you that my replacements do. Unless of course, they're some idiot IT guy. ;)

So isn't that an issue with the management at the business and not with fins? Obviously they did not ask to have that included in the contract. You're blame should be directed at the company for failing to ensure they had their documentation.

Either way, I doubt it would have changed anything. The guy didn't read a sticker, I'm sure he's not gonna research and look for documentation. Also, unless I missed it, I didn't see where Fins said all IT guys (again, unless I missed it)

Last edited by goldenzrule on July 24, 2015 15:25.
Post 45 made on Friday July 24, 2015 at 15:24
goldenzrule
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On July 24, 2015 at 14:21, Fins said...
For clarification, trunk slammers are hacks that work out of the trunks of their cars. My frustration with "IT guys" is that very few are professional or have what I would call a real company. Your field is worth than ours about being riddled with idiots that figured out how to print a business card and watch a couple YouTube instructional videos. Two major problems with these IT trunk slammers. One, they don't think about how their actions may affect other parts of the network. They just do, then start trying to fix. The second problem, it's very common that they want to move into the CI side because it looks more fun. So they will go in and just start screwing with anything (like an $80k lighting system).

Personally, I prefer to have a skilled IT contractor involved on my projects. my network skills are mediocre at best. I much rather sit down with a competent IT contractor, give him my list of needs, have him give me a block of IP addresses and we work together, without stepping on each other's toes.

I agree, to a point. I've seen many IT guys that either moonlight or left their place of business to do IT work on their own. Nothing wrong with that and likely many of us started that way. But be professional, have a registered business, work together. I've seen both good and bad, so will not say all or most are bad, but have had my share of them. Most of the issues I have had with them though is when they tell my client the system we are installing is mediocre, overkill, overpriced, or too difficult and tell them a stereo with 2 6 zone speaker selectors is all they need (has happened a couple times now). The ones that moonlight are the ones that tick me off. I try to contact them to schedule a meeting so we can go over stuff, and they can meet at night, or on weekend. I've reserved that time for family. When i call, from onsite, they are unable to talk. This complicates things.

Again, those are the bad. We've met some good people that do a great job as well, know their sh1t, and work together. Just like any field, you'll find both good and bad. Just hope you deal with the good more than the bad.
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