I think that most MB guys run MAC 90% of the time. They only run windows because they have no choise. Then there are people like me that are in a small minority who want the benefits of a MB while running windows.

Benefits for me:

16:10 high resolution monitor.
Easily/cleanly "docks" to a 27" display.
Decent spec'd thin form factor laptop.

Having said that...until i can load via bootcamp and test...this MB sucks performance wise.


You are basing this on your own personal computing needs. I can remember when a $1000 off the shelf Toshiba P4 laptop felt like lightning to me. These days It's a W series Lenovo or the more expensive MBP.

Back then my computing needs were much different. Outlook/internet/light graphic work/word/excel/PC games like Age of empires to kill time.

Today its outlook/word/excel/internet/heavy graphic work/half a dozen apps for building websites/crestrons huge suite of software, Lutron/rti/urc...crapware for other stuff like these motors in a moving TV product that i will have to learn so that i can use it one time. Egnyte, quickbooks via remote desktop, team viewer, logmein...i have 20 browser tabs open right now as i type this. All things i was working on in the last hour.

Last year i bought a $700 rack PC for a project that can't even run the Lutron QS software without constantly failing. Initially part of the blame was on Lutron but later after a couple of updates i found that my MB will upload to a huge lutron system with no errors while the rack PC fails 3 or 4 times before it uploads properly.


Why would apple fans have googleY eyes? Is this how you feel when you open the festool catalog? Seriously i wish i could use a $1500 laptop and not feel like it was garbage but i just haven't seen it yet. I tried using a desktop and laptop so i had powerful machine at home but it became a pita trying to keep both computers in sync with book marks, software, data. I wish all laptops still had 16:10 screens. When/If apple finally moves to 16:9 it wont matter anymore i guess. I will have to move up to a 17" to get more height.

Trackpad
Retina Display
Dual Operating Systems
Build Quality

I don't know how you make due on a Lenovo T Series. I have  W520 With upgraded SSD and 2nd 500GB storage HDD. I've had it a few years, yes, but I keep great care and rarely have windows issues.

For some reason I'm having issues with it now and have exhausted my efforts and need to do a clean install. That said, it was never as nice to use or look at (the screen, not the physical appearance) as the MacBooks that I've used of my clients.

I haven't seen a PC computer yet with a trackpad or smart mouse that comes any where close to the feel of using a Mac. It frustrates the shit out of me.

I would happily buy a competitively built windows machine if they had something as light and thin, full aluminum body and a kickass gesture trackpad. BUT there isn't one.

| On 1419637800, Mac Burks (39) said...
| If i had 3 grand to experiment with i would get one of these [Link: razerzone.com]

This IS what I was looking at as an alternate, but the more reviews I've read and watched about their LCD Screen Mouse/Trackpad, has me leaning further away. Granted I MOSTLY use a separate mouse. But even then, I'd rather have a smart mouse with smooth scrolling and controls. 

I just priced out a new Lenovo W540 with similar specs to a maxed out MBP. Step up options from base model included:

• CPU up to i7-4930MX , up to 3.90GHz with boost
• 15.5" 3k LED Display
• Graphics to NVIDIA K2100M
• 16GB Ram
• 512GB SSD (I wanted 1TB SSD but they don't have an option)

Still uses there not so great trackpad and joystick thingy. PRAYING that the screen is really much better, the W510 sucked, w520 has been brighter but still not great....definitely nothing compared to retina. FINALLY has backlit keyboard or I wouldn't even be considering.

AND THE GRAND TOTAL IS (drumm rollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll)... $3,230.10

Hmmm. might as well get a full Metal Aluminum body, kick ass track pad, Retina calibrated display and full 1 TB SSD for roughly the same price...right?

Honestly, the closest I've seen is the Dell XPS 15 with maxed upgrades, but that's still only 512 SSD and a Slower CPU. AND their protection plan is more expensive. The total was $2858

If I stick with the 512 SSD MBP, the total with the 3 protection and everything else maxed is $3048
 

Because it's not 1984 anymore?



And I already have a kickass 2-channel system worth more than most people's cars. And...saving is for fools :)

I've raved about the trackpad on mine for years! I'd NEVER have believed that I would prefer a trackpad over a mouse.

I feel dirty even saying it, but I'm right there with you, my macbook's trackpad blows away any mouse I've ever used!

Crap I'm still rocking the i7 Asus N73sv I got 4 years ago for $1500.

I spent the savings over buying a Mac on hookers and blow. Of course, all I have are the memories and apparently now have no trackpad to rave about.

Still, the Asus looks relatively new for the abuse it's taken. No failures of hardware or the case. It still runs everything with ease.


Is this Mac thing something like the "jeep thing" that I just wouldn't understand?

Not true. I work on one every day. One of the best machines I have ever owned. Dv7t. 2 years old.

I run:
the entire Creston suite
Lutron
QuickBooks
Bid magic
Multiple multiple windows of browsing
Many other software.

All to perfection. I can't tell you the last time I have had a problem. I7, 12gb ram, used at minimum 4 hours per day on a very lite day.

Track pad! Lol, give your wrist a break, use a damn mouse!

How long do you guys keep laptops? 2 to 3 years at the most! I have never owned a laptop that didn't last that long. My current dv7 is no standout for high end build quality, but has been literally abused for almost 3 years and has never missed a beat. The latest drop a month or so ago was the nail in the coffin. I have a Velcro tab on the power cord to keep bundled when not in use. I unplugged it and was going to drag to next room, the Velcro stuck to a rug like glue and ripped the laptop out of my hands. I could have cried. It definitely did a lot of damage to the chassis and hinges.

Anyway, the moral for me is I would never ever spend the extra loot for something I know will be replaced within that time frame. Track pad is a non issue. How does a Mac work without two buttons anyway? You can get a lot more for your money buying a pc, one less thing to worry about running native windows machine, much better selection buying pc.

Also there are machines with Mac build quality. Samsung 9 series, Lenovo yoga pro 3 is one slick ass machine, there are others as well.

As Mac stated he tried before, I am going to try to get a top of the line pc and a smaller laptop or surface pro 3. I'm tired of lugging the 17 around everywhere. Mac mentioned problem syncing tabs, if be used a browser worth a shot, like chrome, he would realize that his bookmarks, favorites, passwords, etc are all on every device, from tablet, phone, pc, etc. Also with Google drive, I think I can make this work.

I meant the only 17" in my list above.. the razer 17", the omen 15" and the MBP 15".

I have never dropped a laptop. I only upgrade when the laptop totally dies of natural causes. The first one i had died when the power jack broke off the board. You have to hold the power cord on an angle while it charges for an hour. Repair would have been more than what the laptop was worth so i got an ACER laptop at Best Buy to hold me over for a few months until i got a Lenovo W500 that i used for a few years then upgraded and used for a few more until it stopped booting up. After trying a new HD with no luck i got the MBP last year because we were right in the middle of an installation and i couldn't put it off. Another month and i would have gotten a newer model.


The MAC track pad was a total pita mystery to me until i started using it. Now i cringe when i have to try and fumble my way through a PC track pad.


Many of these newer options didn't exist a year ago or they were new enough that no one knew about them. I was shocked to see the OMEN back at HP when i went to look around yesterday and the day before.


Good luck. I tried for a year and there was ALWAYS 1 or 2 things i missed that would become a pita once i was at the job. In a perfect world you can connect to the internet and download software updates or use team viewer to gain access to files you forgot but job sites aren't always perfect. I was just in Southampton for 4 days where the hotel room had no wi-fi. Miraculously my verizon phone as a hot spot was super fast. If not i would have spent evenings not getting any work done.

I use roboform to manage my hundreds of logins and safenotes and bookmarks. If i forget to click sync i wont have everything with me. This has changed a little since my 27" imac and 15" lenovo experiment. #1. Roboform came out with an all devices everywhere version that works on my iPhone tablet and PC. I still have to remember to always sync but its much easier now. I also use egnyte for all personal data and work data now. This has helped keep data synced as long as there is time between data creation/updating and me turning the computer off.

This still doesn't help with things like updating crestron or lutron software on the desktop to work on a file then getting to the job site and realizing you didnt update the laptop. This adds 10/15 minutes that i usually don't have. If you get a "desktop replacement" laptop that you can dock at home you will save yourself some money and time because it will all be on one computer and you wont feel like you are stepping down when out in the field.

Agreed good luck. As I pointed out in my posts above, to get similar specs (ignoring build quality) you're paying the same money.

I figure we spend a LOT of time on the computer and the faster it can do things for me the faster I can get things done.

• $1500 more over 3 years is an extra $42 a month.
• If a top of the line laptop can run fast enough to save me 30 minutes a month
• or 1.5 minutes a day, then it pays for itself.
• Save me 2 minutes and I'm making money. 

Compiling Crestron Code alone can quickly save you well over 30 minutes in a month.

Add to that Stability. Which I've seen go any way, but better hardware will likely be more stable.

Last is support, Apple Care seems pretty solid can they have you up and running quick and there are stores every where to take it to. The Dell Support for similar coverage cost more money and I don't know of any Dell stores to take it into. 

Just to point out that the i7-4930MX CPU is $600 more expensive than the fastest CPU available in a MBP, the i7-4578U.  It's more powerful with larger cache memories, but consumes about 2.5X power.  These are not comparable CPUs.

im not sure i follow you here. the extra money you are paying for a mac is definitely not directly related to performance. you can build an exact specced machine from hp and save alot of money, dump in 3 years and repeat. I never said to not max it out. i ALWAYS max out my machines. My current 17" laptop is 17" FHD, backlit keyboard (a must), fingerprint (a must), Core i7 (fastest offered at time), 8gb (at the time), 12gb now, 9 cell battery x2 (the ones with big hump that lift up bottom of laptop. IT has been a true beast. My only computer other than a chromebox at my desk for strictly internet stuff, email, pdf veiwing, etc. no complaints. worth every penny, spending more on a mac offered me zero benefits. i have beat this thing to death and it has never failed.

as far as keeping until it dies, that is hard to digest. 3 years in computers might as well be 20!!!! why?

One of the major differences between "multimedia" or "Entertainment" laptops vs "gaming" or "Desktop replacement" laptops is dispaly resolution and discrete graphics. The HP DV7, like most off the shelf laptops has integrated (shared) graphics and many are not even HD.

Discrete graphics plus an SSD hard are probably the two most important things that set higher end laptops apart from what you can pick up at Best Buy. The 3rd thing would be a clean install of windows from a windows disc. Erase whatever came on the computer and start fresh.