seriously....where is the "like" button!!!

but cost effective? rp4? t1B? whats more cost effective than that?

i just got into urc this yr (6 of them) to gt in to that category BC w/out the T2b that was missing for like 3 yrs i was capital SCREWED! its my go to piece.

i tossed in the idea of MX 780 and a MRF, but then the RP4 was released.....no brainer......

What is retail of RP4 and T1B?

I really just wish people would only agree to do work that they are...

A.Interested in doing.
B.Capable of doing.

If the job isn't profitable or a pain in the ass then don't do it. If it's not something you normally do then don't do it.

This is not directed towards the OP as much as it is to the F'N pool contractors around the country who sell high end pools but have no one that can connect LED's or wire up their low voltage stuff. Its happened in LA, in NY and now Florida. Somehow i become the pool contractors low voltage technician.

If i owned my own company i would laugh at anyone who asked me to "take a look at__________" insert anything to do with pool equipment. If you can't get your gear installed maybe stick to bird baths and let the big boys do their work.

Say what?

What.

wellll.....reddit


They'll also clean up your tools for you, but onto their trucks.


I know a GREAT guy in Miami. He's not limited to Miami, either. Email me for info.

Ohh, now I get it. So this is like that numbers thread in Intermission or something, where you're not suppose to respond to someone's post; just pile on your own post.

Got it; carry on, nothing to see. :-)

Mac, I maybe installing a pool at my house this winter and I have a feeling that the contractor has no clue how to do LV stuff as well.

Call me and lets talk about the things you ran into so I know what to expect and how to handle things.

I'm going to give you a customers perspective on this, and perhaps it might chance your feelings about what is F'ed up about your industry.

As a consumer, when I want to find a good installer, how do I tell the good ones from the bad? CEDIA perhaps? You do realize that might direct me to the nearest Best Buy. I will argue that as a consumer that there is not a good indication of who is truly great at their job. For a consumer it is really difficult to tell. If they don't understand discretes, HDMI distribution, etc, then how can they tell the difference between a good salesman, and a truly great installer?

Since your customer can't tell, until after the job is completed, do you think it is their fault for choosing the electrician, when he promises a good job, and a Wesley'esque future proof job? After all he will run a couple RG6 and two CAT5e to each TV location. The customer doesn't know much, and that sounds pretty good.

I'll contend that the problem most of the pros who frequent this forum have, is that they lack an industry group which has their best interests at heart. Such a group would advertise to end customers, and promote professionals, and give consumers a way to choose professionals at different expertise levels to fit with the expertise needed for the job.

There is nothing wrong with a CI who only knows how to hang a panel, and implement a simple control system, as long as that is all the customer needs. This might not be the right business model for someone who has nothing but Crestron programmers on staff that is used to whole house control systems.

Today there is no such way for customers to find a good installer, without basically lucking into one... so isn't the problem with electricians and your customers who hire them, basically a failing of your chosen profession? At the heart of any great industry, is a concerted marketing effort, and I think CI's lack this!

Ok, I am going to start a new CEDIA.
Devoted to just CIs

All you guys just send me 20% of your profit....

I'll do the rest.

I hope this starts looking up soon. You've already said our industry if F'ed up; while we have complaints, I don't think any of us will continue to work in an industry that's F'ed up... it's not that bad!


EXACTLY! I have no idea how to tell; word of mouth is the best indicator I can think of, but that is sooooooooooo limited!


Are you saying that because it really might, or because that has happened to you? To a FOAF (friend of a friend, meaning quoted as reliable but in reality too far from being a witness to be relied on)?


Yes. Exactly. And the guys who snow their customers with info about discretes, and HDMI, and EDID, and everything, are the best ones and the worst ones. I work with A GREAT GUY who does killer installs but you can see the customers' eyes glaze over while he talks in tech terms that they cannot possibly follow.


I think CEDIA is such a group. I think, though, that they have their heads in the clouds and cannot connect with the average customer (who, it must be admitted, is not an average person; the average person doesn't need our services).


If it weren't for the lawyerly world we live in, and the word "liability" and its application, I could agree with you.


And as long as that's what he does. If I run into something I don't know about, I tell the client; I tell them I can look into it; I tell them I don't charge for on-the-job training; we usually work something out.


...or does Crestron provide leads to their pro installers?


Your inclusion of the word "electricians" is puzzling. That is like me pontificating about the world of engineering, where occasionally a mechanic has been hired to do some actual engineering, but then concluding "isn't the problem with mechanics and your customers who hire them," when the discussion is about engineers?

It's not just our industry. It's the same for Doctors, Lawyers, Wait Staff, Toilet Scrubbers and even engineers.

I agree with bcf. Some of my friends are currently talking to a CI company in Charlotte and they asked me whether they were a good firm or not. I had no idea what to tell them. (anyone know The Integrated Home out of Charlotte?)

I also agree with Mac. Most professions have this problem.

However, with the medical profession, you can find out numbers of surgeries, percent of patients who had issues with said surgery, etc. We are implementing something similar here for engineers. Also, the boards for these professions eagerly pursue people operating without a license. I know my engineering board also investigates engineers who don't operate with a reasonable standard of care and will take their PE if they are found lacking.

You can ask to see portfolio photos, examples of documentation. You can ask to tour a previous project or showroom and test drive the interface.

If the argument is that "consumers don't know to ask about this stuff", the same argument can be applied to any other profession. IMO choosing your CI is much easier than choosing your doctor.

If you meet with a company and they cant provide you with evidence to back up what they say they can do, you can say goodbye and move to the next company on the list.

I think there is a healthy mix of bad CI's and consumers who end up driving their own project into the ground in hopes of saving a dollar or just because they think they know everything. My advice is to A investigate the company you plan to hire and B let them do the work you hired them for.

Arghhhhh! pool contractors are simply special. They need to be brought in on shortbusses. We ended up having to complete our own pool (we hand dug it out) we ended up haveing todo our own plumbing, bonding,wiring, light placement and aqualink install you name it. What is sad is that this is the same crap that goes on with 90% of the pool contractors out there. I have been on many projects where the pool company drives the customers F*!@^# batty to the point of one of them just said screw it and filled the pool in.

I have NEVER run into a more incompetent group of idiots before. Just like you on all these projects I (we) end up telling these people how to do their jobs and how to hook shit up.

Mario, i have first hand experience on pools. Call me to discuss this, to put in bluntly. If you want it done right your going to have to be your own contractor, simple as that.

Find a excavator, find a rebar contractor, find a gunite contractor, (do your own plumbing) and find a finish contractor (usually the same company that shoots your pool can do the finishing)

I have a list of contractors that did our pool, all of them were great it was just the actual company we contracted kept screwing up. I have often thought about becoming a pool contractor, big $$$ in it and i am absolutely positive i could actually make it an enjoyable experience for my clients rather then driving them bat shit crazy.