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OT: Gotta love Arizona
This thread has 88 replies. Displaying posts 46 through 60.
Post 46 made on Saturday August 30, 2014 at 20:44
Mr. Stanley
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On August 30, 2014 at 20:10, Brad Humphrey said...
It was a full automatic submachine gun. The exact Uzi model would dictate the rate of fire - it varies a lot with the year and variant. And the clip size can also vary from 20 to 70 rounds in the magazine.
But any of these models can dump the entire magazine in a matter of a second or two, with trigger held.

If you had ever shot a full automatic weapon before, with that high of a rate of fire, you would know that it is a steady push until that trigger is released (or runs out of ammo). That push pivots on your hand from the grip. Sending the weapon not only pushing back but upward with force.
For a 9 year old girl, who had never shot one before and had no idea what to expect - it was inevitable that this would happen.
So why was the instructor not right up behind her, with both his hands, on both her arms, to help steady her?
And I would argue to, why a 9 year old even had that kind of weapon in hand.

Wow. That is similar to the boy a couple of years ago...
"If it keeps up, man will atrophy all his limbs but the push-button finger."
Frank Lloyd Wright
Post 47 made on Saturday August 30, 2014 at 21:29
BobL
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They had a video online for the Arizona shooting and showed everything up until the point the instructor got shot. It recoiled up and the instructors head was looking over the girls shoulder. Very similar to the mass incident which was in the town I lived. The only difference is the boy it recoiled into his own head and the girl recoiled to the side of her head where the instructor was. Either way the kids were not able to handle the gun and it happened so fast I am sure the kids don't think to react with the clip emptying in under 2 sec.
Post 48 made on Saturday August 30, 2014 at 21:35
Mac Burks (39)
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I just hope that these 2 isolated incidents (of children 8 and 9 years old not being able to handle a god d@mn uzi) doesn't make the liberals think they can take away my freedumbs to let my kids shoot themselves or others.
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OP | Post 49 made on Sunday August 31, 2014 at 00:04
kgossen
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It's just too bad both Parents were't shot because if anyone deserves to be it's them. This little girl needs to be taken away by child services so she doesn't spend another minute with her piece of sh*t parents.
"Quality isn't expensive, it's Priceless!"
Post 50 made on Sunday August 31, 2014 at 06:49
Brad Humphrey
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What gets me about all this:
You have to be a certain age to drive a car.
You have to be a certain height to ride some things at a carnival.
You have to be a certain age to obtain a hunting license.
You have to be a certain age to rent a car.
You have to be a certain age or physical attribute to do many things;  because of the maturity level, concentration, etc...

Yet these rules seem to go out the window when it comes to firearms in this country. Yes we have laws that no one under 18 can purchase firearms & ammo. But nothing about operating them.
This should be common sense... but yet...

I blame the NRA for this. They should be the front runners in supporting regulation on this and safety overall. But it seems they are always more interested in putting any type of weapon into anyone's hand. Whether they be mentally incompetent, violent criminal, young child, or other. Also the reason the NRA will never see a dime of my money.
I have guns. I love my guns. But I didn't take the boys shooting, till they were teenagers (15 & 16 at the time). And the girls, which are even older, didn't want to shoot the guns and I didn't make them. But they were still shown proper handling of the weapons and gun safety.
They all have a respect for the weapons and know how dangerous they can be.
Post 51 made on Sunday August 31, 2014 at 09:13
BigPapa
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On August 27, 2014 at 17:11, burtont62 said...
There is none. If logic was applied and actually ruled then we would outlaw alcohol because more people die of drunk driving then of guns.

This is not logic, this if fallacy. As in faulty logic. A pretty clever one as it's a combination two fallacies, a false analogy used to make a red herring. It's been common in gun debates for years.

It's also factually incorrect, as more people die from guns than drunk driving.
 
Post 52 made on Sunday August 31, 2014 at 10:38
highfigh
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This may have happened because the girl panicked when the Uzi fired so rapidly (there's a big difference between hearing it fire and feeling it in your hands), which might have caused her to grip tighter and lacking hand/wrist/arm strength, the gun rose and rotated as she fired. IF she was going to learn to handle firearms, she should have started with single-shot, small caliber. Rifle or handgun, it wouldn't really matter. If they want to let people fire a machine gun without prior experience, they should tether it to a bench or rail in front of the shooter, so this kind of thing can't happen.

If people become so gung ho about owning and shooting because of the NRA (or another organization), they shouldn't own guns- they're too impressionable, IMO.

I hope her dad didn't pressure her to shoot when she might not have wanted to. If he did, he should be found liable.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 53 made on Sunday August 31, 2014 at 11:03
Anthony
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On August 31, 2014 at 09:13, BigPapa said...
It's also factually incorrect, as more people die from guns than drunk driving.
 

yup, he could have made the argument that cars should be illegal since there are a few more deaths from driving that guns but drunk driving is only a part of that, there are also accidents and people not paying attention.
...
Post 54 made on Sunday August 31, 2014 at 12:10
BigPapa
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On August 31, 2014 at 11:03, Anthony said...
yup, he could have made the argument that cars should be illegal since there are a few more deaths from driving that guns but drunk driving is only a part of that, there are also accidents and people not paying attention.

He could have but it's not an argument, it's a fallacy that really only acts to end an argument. At this point it's statistically insignificant as total gun deaths and auto deaths are almost the same. If you say 'well then, cars should be illegal because more people die from them' it's not a statement that inspires further discussion. Unless we want to spend of bunch of time discussing how cars and guns are the same... or actually, how they are not the same since they are not the same.

The problem with these bumper sticker or Photoshop quips is they're built on faulty logic. Once you incorporate Lossy Logic into a debate further debate on these assumptions become meaningless. It's the same thing as 'more people die from clubs and sticks than rifles'. It starts to become a caricature of a debate, not a real debate. Which is the whole point of using these types of fallacies: they are meant to end debate and distract from the original premise.

So Premise A person (guns = cars) can spout off reasons why cars and guns are the same and Challenger A (not same) can go back and forth... and not talk about the bats*** insanity of 9 yr olds firing automatic weapons.

You first:
Guns and cars are the same because ______

 
Post 55 made on Sunday August 31, 2014 at 15:29
burtont62
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Sorry I should've just said alcohol and left the drunk driving part off.

From our good friends at the CDC.

Number of alcohol-induced deaths, excluding accidents and homicides: 26,654

[Link: cdc.gov]

I don't want to take your alcohol away so don't get excited, I'm just saying that if logic dictates that guns are bad because they kill 11 to 12 thousand people. Then the same logic would then also apply that alcohol is twice as bad. Or is your "guns are bad" logic now flawed?
Post 56 made on Sunday August 31, 2014 at 17:17
Greg C
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Sorry, but there are in the neighborhood of 30K gun deaths/year. [Link: factcheck.org]
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Post 57 made on Sunday August 31, 2014 at 19:41
Mr. Stanley
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Uzis are designed for one thing only. To kill.
Cars are designed to transport people.
"If it keeps up, man will atrophy all his limbs but the push-button finger."
Frank Lloyd Wright
Post 58 made on Sunday August 31, 2014 at 20:35
BigPapa
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On August 31, 2014 at 19:41, Mr. Stanley said...
Uzis are designed for one thing only. To kill.
Cars are designed to transport people.

According to Burton they're all the same. Including alchohol. Maybe that's why they're more awesome all at the same time.
Post 59 made on Sunday August 31, 2014 at 21:10
BigPapa
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On August 31, 2014 at 15:29, burtont62 said...
I'm just saying that if logic dictates that guns are bad because they kill 11 to 12 thousand people. Then the same logic would then also apply that alcohol is twice as bad. Or is your "guns are bad" logic now flawed?

None of this logic, yours or that of your assumed opponent, makes any sense.

How about this:

Gun and alcohol are the same because _____
Post 60 made on Monday September 1, 2014 at 07:58
highfigh
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On August 31, 2014 at 19:41, Mr. Stanley said...
Uzis are designed for one thing only. To kill.
Cars are designed to transport people.

And both can be used irresponsibly, leading to unnecessary deaths.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
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