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Topic:
Coleman wire combo coax/data bundle usage
This thread has 15 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on Sunday June 29, 2014 at 17:44
MNTommyBoy
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Would this be ok to use in trenched rigid conduit (schedule 40)?

[Link: ccixpress.com]

TIA

Tom
"There's a big difference between winging it and seeing what happens. Now let's see what happens." ~MacGruber
OP | Post 2 made on Sunday June 29, 2014 at 17:47
MNTommyBoy
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Looking at Table 725.154 and the full article, I'm not sure...
"There's a big difference between winging it and seeing what happens. Now let's see what happens." ~MacGruber
Post 3 made on Sunday June 29, 2014 at 19:10
P2P
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Trenched rigid conduit? As in conduit buried in a trench in the ground?

If so, no - I would not use that cable. It isn't DB rated. All too common mistake is buried conduit is not water tight no matter how carefully it is installed. Regular PVC jacket on cables will break down over time because they aren't designed to be sitting in the water, muck, and mire that will accumulate in the conduit within about a week of installation. Only use DB rated cable in conduit.
Post 4 made on Sunday June 29, 2014 at 19:35
highfigh
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On June 29, 2014 at 17:44, MNTommyBoy said...
Would this be ok to use in trenched rigid conduit (schedule 40)?

[Link: ccixpress.com]

TIA

Tom

Depends- are you using white, or gray conduit? I just ran that cable through gray 2" and after worrying that the landscapers may have damaged it when I wasn't there, I was happy to see that it was totally dry inside, even after going through the last Winter, which seemed like it would never freakin' end.

How long is the conduit and how many bends? What diameter? Make sure to spray silicone into the conduit before you feed the cable- it will pull a lot easier and you'll put a lot less stress on the cable.

If it's dry, it should last pretty long. I don't look at DB applications as literally 'permanent', so I make it easier to re-run, if it fails.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 5 made on Sunday June 29, 2014 at 19:37
iimig
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It is type CL2 wire which is suitable for general purpose, which means that it can be installed just about anywhere EXCEPT for riser, duct, plenum, and environmental air installations. So the short answer is yes, it may be installed in conduit technically. However, if the conduit is installed in a damp or wet location, the inside of the conduit is considered a damp or wet location, which means that the wire must be identified for use in a damp or wet location. This wire does not appear to be rated for damp or wet locations.

110.11 says that no conductors shall be located in damp or wet locations (unless identified for use in those locations).

If the conduit is installed in a dry location, you are fine.
The less I say, the smarter I will appear
Post 6 made on Sunday June 29, 2014 at 19:43
Ernie Gilman
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In addition, all those cables together have a horribly reduced ability to bend inside an overall jacket, so you'd want to use, oh, say, 2" conduit! I've wondered how people run it around corners in houses.

It's odd that the spec sheet doesn't list minimum bending radius. I only looked at one item, though....

I agree that you can't depend on waterproof conduit to always stay dry. All underground wire should be able to withstand water.
A good answer is easier with a clear question giving the make and model of everything.
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Post 7 made on Sunday June 29, 2014 at 20:01
ericspencer
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On June 29, 2014 at 19:37, iimig said...
110.11 says that no conductors shall be located in damp or wet locations (unless identified for use in those locations).

800.47 excludes the wet location requirements for communications cables
Not my circus, not my monkeys
Post 8 made on Sunday June 29, 2014 at 20:30
JustinG
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Make sure it is direct burial rated, I've made the mistake before with some camera cabling and about 3 years later the water made its way into the jacket of the cable causing video issues.
Post 9 made on Sunday June 29, 2014 at 20:45
iimig
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On June 29, 2014 at 20:01, ericspencer said...
800.47 excludes the wet location requirements for communications cables

Thanks for pointing that out. For my own sanity, I'm going to think this out and pull an Ernie.

The wire in question is actually CL2 (not CM), which does not have the same exclusion. However, anybody versed in the code knows that CL2 and CL3 wiring can easily be substituted with CM wire of the same type, or can also take the role of CM wire when installed with CM wire. But CM wire cannot be substituted with CL2/3. And the code applies to CM. But the wire is CL2. So my literal interpretation is that CL2 wiring has not been excluded from the "wet location" requirements of 310.10 and the code I originally mentioned.

But the practical side of me knows that the AHJ will not care or look. That being said, if the conduit is outside in any way, shape, or form, it will have water in it, and I have seen your everyday general purpose wire deteriorate in these conditions, particularly CAT5E.
The less I say, the smarter I will appear
Post 10 made on Sunday June 29, 2014 at 21:22
ericspencer
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On June 29, 2014 at 20:45, iimig said...
The wire in question is actually CL2 (not CM)

Actually the webpage the OP presented lists the cable as CM
Not my circus, not my monkeys
Post 11 made on Sunday June 29, 2014 at 21:25
iimig
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I realize this is splitting hairs, but it's ETL listed CM. ETL is like UL. But the wire itself is identified and printed CL2.
The less I say, the smarter I will appear
OP | Post 12 made on Sunday June 29, 2014 at 21:39
MNTommyBoy
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My plan was 2" grey conduit, in the ground. My client texted me late Friday and said the ditch witch is coming on Tuesday. So that means I have to grab the wiring local, quickly.

This guy is arguably my best client, so I don't want to screw around. I found "burial" cat5 and "burial" quadflex locally, so I should be good to go. I feel that is the safest route.

Thank you all for the input!
"There's a big difference between winging it and seeing what happens. Now let's see what happens." ~MacGruber
Post 13 made on Sunday June 29, 2014 at 22:10
highfigh
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On June 29, 2014 at 19:43, Ernie Gilman said...
In addition, all those cables together have a horribly reduced ability to bend inside an overall jacket, so you'd want to use, oh, say, 2" conduit! I've wondered how people run it around corners in houses.

It's odd that the spec sheet doesn't list minimum bending radius. I only looked at one item, though....

I agree that you can't depend on waterproof conduit to always stay dry. All underground wire should be able to withstand water.

Minimum bend radius rule of thumb is 4 times the diameter.

Re: around corners- you mean in stud walls? The easy way is to drill in about an inch, then change direction with a paddle bit or the self-boring bits with small diameter shank. Add nailing plates and it's pretty well protected.

This cable bends pretty well but the jacket is good for letting someone know when they're trying to bend it too tightly.

I used 2" conduit because I had no choice but to include several bends, although I used 45 degree where I could. I transitioned to smaller diameter parts at each end, so nobody will try to add more and screw up what's there, after I'm out of the picture or she moves out of the house.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 14 made on Sunday June 29, 2014 at 22:13
highfigh
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On June 29, 2014 at 21:39, MNTommyBoy said...
My plan was 2" grey conduit, in the ground. My client texted me late Friday and said the ditch witch is coming on Tuesday. So that means I have to grab the wiring local, quickly.

This guy is arguably my best client, so I don't want to screw around. I found "burial" cat5 and "burial" quadflex locally, so I should be good to go. I feel that is the safest route.

Thank you all for the input!

How far do you have to go? If it's a long run (over 100'), include a pull box somewhere near the mid-point- it will make the pull a lot easier but silicone makes it very easy.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 15 made on Sunday June 29, 2014 at 23:22
ShaferCustoms
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Things that make you go Huh?

Reading the cable spec
"Note: The Category 5e cables are no longer a verified category cable after cabling."

Huh?
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