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Topic:
OT (Kind of) Seattle Approves $15 hr. Minimum Wage
This thread has 129 replies. Displaying posts 61 through 75.
Post 61 made on Friday May 2, 2014 at 22:21
burtont62
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It's kind of insulting to think that the guy asking me if I want to supersize that meal is making $31,200 a year and a Sergeant in the Army with 4 years experience is making $30,660.
OP | Post 62 made on Friday May 2, 2014 at 23:04
Mr. Stanley
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With all do respect.... that person chose the military. How much did the kids flying Bombers in Ww2 earn?
50 years ago, GM was on a roll. They were paying 50$ hourly. WTF has happened? Wake up people.
"If it keeps up, man will atrophy all his limbs but the push-button finger."
Frank Lloyd Wright
Post 63 made on Friday May 2, 2014 at 23:09
Fins
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And that guy flipping burgers chose not to go into the military. You have no point
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 64 made on Saturday May 3, 2014 at 04:49
drewski300
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On May 2, 2014 at 23:04, Mr. Stanley said...
With all do respect.... that person chose the military. How much did the kids flying Bombers in Ww2 earn?
50 years ago, GM was on a roll. They were paying 50$ hourly. WTF has happened? Wake up people.

And there goes your whole argument......

Check out #2. [Link: pewresearch.org]. And of those people who are making minimum wage, how many also receive tips? Which BTW, they elude paying taxes by not reporting their tip income accurately....seems fair. I would say a high number of tip based earners do not report their income accurately. I knew a guy who worked at Mortons making minimum wage but still made 100K a year

I'm not against raising the minimum wage a little, but yes, $15/17 an hour is retarded regardless of the timeline. The economy is not recovering from our last downturn the way it should and this plan would further stall the economic recovery for Seattle. Here is a good article that describes one of the good ways the minimum wage should/could be calculated. [Link: articles.latimes.com].
"Just when I thought you couldn't possibly be any dumber, you go and do something like this... and totally redeem yourself!"
Post 65 made on Saturday May 3, 2014 at 06:34
mcn779
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Mr. Stanley are the people that you work with going to get raises to keep their pay in line? Are the people making 20 an hour going to get 27?
Post 66 made on Saturday May 3, 2014 at 07:43
davet2020
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On May 2, 2014 at 22:21, burtont62 said...
It's kind of insulting to think that the guy asking me if I want to supersize that meal is making $31,200 a year and a Sergeant in the Army with 4 years experience is making $30,660.

That Sergeant also gets 100% free medical care for him and his family. He also gets free housing or a housing allowance. He also gets to shop at the military PX and commissary. If he stays in for 20 years he will get retirement benefits. He can start collecting those benefits immediately and for the rest of his life.

Once he leaves the military he is also eligible for free education with the GI Bill.

These benifits are well deserved by the men and women who protect us but minimum pay workers get nothing.

Keep in mind of the location of this increase. It is not in a part of the country where the cost of living is low. In some places if you earned 30K per year you could survive. In other areas if you earned $30K per year it is impossible to support a family.
If you are going to do the job...why not do it the right way?
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Post 67 made on Saturday May 3, 2014 at 09:52
BigPapa
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On May 2, 2014 at 20:56, Fins said...
The minimum wage should be raised regularly. And the current federal rate is a problem because it's actually lower than the welfare rate. But, an extra $12k per employee is a big chunk for employers to swallow. And you act like this will elevate a group of workers into a different economic class. But the reality is, they will still be bottom level, minimum wage workers, and other salaries and expenses in the area will go up, keeping the status quo.

A statement based in nothing more than simplistic assumptions and faith.

Contrarily, if you reduce pay to all these employees will all prices reduce and keep the status quo? So it doesn't matter?

A person who makes 30K a year that gets a 12k increase over a few years is making significantly more money whether or not they are classified minimum wage or move into another economic class.

The fact is they are making a significantly more money.

Assuming that all prices for goods this minimum wage worker consumes will rise commensurate with their wage increase, therefore it's not worth doing anything/status quo, is a common statement detractors make.

Please feel free to share any data or academic studies that show raising wages on workers on the lowest end of the economic scale will cause goods to rise commensurate with their wage increases.

Not only does it not make any sense, stuff like this completely destroys that argument.


 

Last edited by BigPapa on May 3, 2014 10:31.
Post 68 made on Saturday May 3, 2014 at 10:00
Fins
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It's not based on assumptions. Many employers have clauses in their employment contracts that guarantee comparable raises along with any changes to minimum wage. And as someone else pointed out, people making above minimum wage won't be content to stay at the same level if the minimum wage catches up to them.

If your flawed logic worked, then at some point with a minimum wage raise, poverty should have disappeared from America for a period until the evil corporations let the bottom salary fall behind the curve again.
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 69 made on Saturday May 3, 2014 at 10:03
BigPapa
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Interesting the contrast shared between military pay and the lowest tiers of the economic scale, as if is some kind of equivalence to imply that the lowest economic scale is lucky to get even that since the military makes sacrifices to get even that pay.

Not only is it meant to denigrate working poor people (in addition to an assumption they don't work hard), reliance on food stamps by the military is increasing.

What is most ironic by detractors of minimum wage increases who also seem to be small/less government people, increasing the minimum wage would drastically reduce reliance on government programs, those 'free handouts' given to the lazy pikers so despised.  
OP | Post 70 made on Saturday May 3, 2014 at 10:11
Mr. Stanley
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On May 2, 2014 at 07:10, Fins said...
Bruce, could your employer afford to give everyone a $6 an hour raise without raising prices?

That's a $12,480 a year raise. Per person.

How are you doing the math?
"If it keeps up, man will atrophy all his limbs but the push-button finger."
Frank Lloyd Wright
Post 71 made on Saturday May 3, 2014 at 10:29
mcn779
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On May 3, 2014 at 10:11, Mr. Stanley said...
How are you doing the math?

There are 2080 work hours in a year. 8 hours a day time 5 days a week time 52 weeks in a year 8*5*52=2080 time $6.00 an hour is $12,480.00.

Big Papa if everyone is given that raise which is only fair the people on the bottom are still on the bottom. If it's not fair who deserves the raises and who doesn't? Suddenly that person that's been there for 2 or 3 years making 10/12 bucks an hour are making less than some one just hired? Also who can business keep making a profit at the same prices with that kind of increase in labor costs? You shouldn't need any studies to see this.

Last edited by mcn779 on May 3, 2014 10:37.
Post 72 made on Saturday May 3, 2014 at 10:30
BigPapa
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On May 3, 2014 at 10:00, Fins said...
It's not based on assumptions. Many employers have clauses in their employment contracts that guarantee comparable raises along with any changes to minimum wage. And as someone else pointed out, people making above minimum wage won't be content to stay at the same level if the minimum wage catches up to them.

If your flawed logic worked, then at some point with a minimum wage raise, poverty should have disappeared from America for a period until the evil corporations let the bottom salary fall behind the curve again.

You used flawed logic, I challenge you to explain it. You haven't, and instead used non sequiturs and said I used flawed logic. I merely challenged yours.

You said that raising minimum wage will be moot because the increased costs of goods will raise, making the increases moot (maintaining the status quo).

Can you explain this logic?


 
Post 73 made on Saturday May 3, 2014 at 10:46
Fins
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I didn't say it was a moot point. There you go lying again. If you are going to lie and try to put words in my mouth like you also tried to do to others, then forget it. I'm done with you, because there is no point since you will just continue to lie to try to make yourself look like you know what you are talking about
Civil War reenactment is LARPing for people with no imagination.

Post 74 made on Saturday May 3, 2014 at 11:00
BigPapa
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On May 3, 2014 at 10:29, mcn779 said...
Big Papa if everyone is given that raise which is only fair the people on the bottom are still on the bottom.

That's a classic non sequitur.

If it's not fair who deserves the raises and who doesn't? Suddenly that person that's been there for 2 or 3 years making 10/12 bucks an hour are making less than some one just hired?

You do realize the proposed increased happens over a period of time and not all at once, don't you? Which allows time for businesses to address this very issue.

Also who can business keep making a profit at the same prices with that kind of increase in labor costs? You shouldn't need any studies to see this.

Yes, nobody needs studies to understand this. Employees will be paid more, so they cost more, so businesses will need to change their prices or take less profit, or both. The understanding of this is not the problem, the mindset that the holy profit is somehow threatened is the problem. And the irrational fear that if you raise prices you lose business, therefore no raising of prices.

Which is irrational. You may be able to raise prices to cover the increased costs of the minimum wage going up without significantly raising the cost of your finished product. Studies abound looking at cost impacts of raising employee wages:

Raise to $10.50 minimum wage = cost is less than 3% of net sales for a McDonald's franchise. 

So yes, more $ for employees, will need to raise your prices. For a McDonald's franchise, 3% would cover it.

Now if all those people making 30k a year got a 30% raise over a few years but had to pay 3% more for their burgers with fries, do they come out ahead?

You don't need a study to understand that math.
 
Post 75 made on Saturday May 3, 2014 at 11:03
BigPapa
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On May 3, 2014 at 10:46, Fins said...
I didn't say it was a moot point. There you go lying again. If you are going to lie and try to put words in my mouth like you also tried to do to others, then forget it. I'm done with you, because there is no point since you will just continue to lie to try to make yourself look like you know what you are talking about

I'll take that as your answer: you cannot explain how a raising of wages doesn't matter because costs will rise commensurate with them.

Thank you for conceding the the talking point. 
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