Hello,

I have been in the electrical trade for 18+ years and together with my husband have been a C10 Contractor in California for the past 6. We live in a very rural community, which provides us with frequent opportunity to install AV and low voltage systems. Up until this year, we primarily dealt with lower-end products that general electrical wholesalers offered, but this year we have ventured forward into the Custom Market.

Although we have access to many different products, and brands, for now our primary focus is in Bose systems (plus the televisions, DVD's etc. to go with them). It is with this in mind that I am here to ask questions.

In programming the Pronto TSU2000 for my customers I have been asked many times to make it easier to understand. Customers get confused by all of the different screens they must scroll through to get to the device they are trying to control. Since I am very new to this type of programming (but not to computers) I know just enough to get myself into trouble.

Are there any other Bose custom installers out there who would be willing to share CCF files they have modified for the TS200, 400 and 600 systems or the Lifestyles?

Or does any else have other advice for programming these so that the not so techno-savvy customers who just want to "watch TV" can understand?

I have been reading these forums for days looking for tips and advice on this subject. So, thanks for your patience if the answers are here and I just didn't find them.

If you'd rather email me please send it to [email protected].

Thanks,
Kristen

First the bad news. The only Bose systems I know that will work with an IR learning remote are the LS28 and LS35. The Bose 321 may as well but I am not sure. The configurations in the new files section will operate the LS 28/35 systems flawlessly. The codes that the Bose systems will teach your remote will cause problems. Use the files here. There are at this time no IR remote codes for zone 2

Shoe,
Thanks for the reply.

Bose tells their installers to use the Pronto specifically. Because of this, what I am hoping for is, that another Custom Solutions Div. installer, will be willing to share what they have done to make it simple for the customer to understand(or at least give some advice on how I can make it simpler myself).

So, I know there are other Bose CS installers out there...what do you say? :o)

Kristen

Don't forget Bose's new IR retrofit device for older models.

To simplify your installations and give your customer the best bang for their buck$ . DON'T USE BOSE it's CRAP . "Bose is one of the worlds best marketers"
their products leave a lot to be desired. They suck.

Bose custom installers hahaha what a joke .

Bose All Highs No Lows including the price

OK now that I'm done Bose Bashing

Kristen why Bose ?
Email me and I can send you a huge list of A/V wholesale distributors that carry High Quality equipment at a better price and specs than any Bose products .
By the way None Carry Bose crap

Another point is when your customer selects the device they want to use on the stereo page all you have to do is make the pronto jump to that device (no need to scroll anywhere) call me if you need further assistance.

The numbers on our website
http://www.automatedhomes.tv



This message was edited by kabster on 05/17/02 22:47.17.

I too, was considering Bose 1-2-3 due to the configuration of my townhome living room...unable to place rear speakers behind our chairs.
I would be interested in getting from you, a copy of the advise email that you offered to the previous poster.
Thank you,
Don Vickers
[email protected]

Currently running Sony Vega 36", Sony VCR, TiVo 2, DVD,
IOMEGA Photo system. Wife wants a better sound system than the SONY VEGA built in speakers.

Check your mail

I was waiting for someone to point out the truth about Bose. I about fell out of my chair when I saw Bose custom installer :) Kabster too funny. LOL

Thanks everyone who has emailed me with help and offered their advice (both positive and negative). I appreciate it. Bose actually sent me exatcly what I was looking for on Thursday.

On another note...
While I know that Bose is not the "best" out there, it is very well marketed and great for customers who do not want the "high tech" equipment. There are a lot of people who want good sound and simplicity and also have the money to want Bose. Bose Corp. spends a lot of money on name recognition marketing and we are benefiting from it. Our customers (at this point) come to us because they want Bose. It is this market that we are providing for.

I have stated this in a few other emails privately but I guess I should say it here. We offer and sell other product lines aside from Bose. We have chosen our focus to be Bose because they are good to work with, have an extreemly high profile product that has great name recognition and simply put, we like it that way. :o) Oh, and by the way...If when you think of Bose you think of the "Circuit City" surround in a box type Lifestyle systems, these are not what I am referring to. Yes, I can install them for customers who don't want to just do it themselves, but these are not my business emphasis.


We are also very new to this side of the electrical industry. It is much easier to learn something new with one product line and then move on to others later. I am sure that after CEDIA, I will have a whole new outlook on Sound and Video Equipment. Until then, I am just working on getting to know the industry and the products that we already offer(with an emphasis on Bose).

:o)

Kristen

PS.."Bose custom installer": My Definition: An A/V custom installer who happens to install Bose "BUILT-INvisible" equipment in addition to others.

It appears that some of you think this is funny. I think it's good business. You can laugh here and I'll laugh on my way to the bank. ;o) LOL

I think it is time to look at the process of our business. We are in business and our goal is to make a profit. It is also not our only goal. The reality of Bose is that they are a great marketing company that makes indiosyncratic systems that will not integrate smoothly with anything not Bose. They also sound mediocre at best. Also, can we believe that they invest all of their profits in R&D? (check the website) An analogy comparing Bose and reputable custom manufacturers would be comparing Macdonalds and Morton's Steak House. Price and quality can be compared but when you throw value into the mix it's a tougher evaluation. If your bottom line is the bottom line and your in a rural area without competition, and are willing to sell equipment that imparts no pride in owning it, Bose may be the answer. Just don't try to control your thermostat, window shades, projector lift or screen, lighting, Imerge or anything more than 65 feet from the transposed car amplifier switching unit that uses what appears to be staples to program it. By the way, the Bose LS28/35 systems are the crown jewels of the Bose kingdom and for some people they may be the right low value mediocre or worse choice. You at least owe it to your customers to let them know there are choices. "How are you going to keep them down on the farm after they've seen Paris". Also, what other equipment do you sell and what's your basis for comparison? You might want to re-examine your business plan and see if it will hold up in the long run?

You both make a lot of good points. I am glad Kristen is making coin with Bose. I personally follow Shoe's approach. In my business there are hi-end and low end products. I only deal with hi-end products. Also the right way and what I would call a half ass way to do things. I also educate people to this fact. Of course the best products and doing things the correct way always cost more but better for both party's in the long run. If all they are looking for is price and aren't interested in quality I would rather not deal with them anyway because they are going to cause more problems down the road when that cheap product breaks and they just want to know when they are getting another free one. This has taken me a long way and I have never looked back. I would admit though in a rural community the thought process maybe different and less of a client base to pick and choose.



This message was edited by ECHOSLOB on 05/18/02 23:15.37.

It appears that what I install and what many of you associate with Bose are two different creations from the same corporation. The LS 28/35 are not the "crown jewels" of Bose. I install TS200, TS400 and TS600 systems, custom designed and each component chosen based on what the customer is looking for. Have you seen, heard or installed one of these? They are not LS type or LS quality systems. Yes, there are still better systems out there than these TS systems, but for the price and the sound, my customers so far have been very pleased.

Some of the other brands I sell are: Onkyo, Mirage, Middle Atlantic and Atlantic Technologies, plus the typical RCA, Philips, Panasonic etc. Many others also, these are the only ones that come to mind off the top of my head. I have excellent sales reps. for these and other products that have been very supportive and helpful. I also let my customers know right off that we sell other product lines and that depending on what their budget and desired outcome are, Bose may not be what they are looking for. (I would not shoot myself in the foot and sell Bose when clearly the customer is looking for more).

It seems that I have opened myself up to a great deal of well meant criticism. Thank you for your honesty, I have listened and will consider all that has been said. I hope that those of you who don't know what TS200, 400 and 600 systems are, will want to find out more about them, if for no other reason than to know what else is being installed out there in the name of Bose.

Small town yes, Small mind...no.
:o)
Kristen

I think one of the problems here is that the feedback you are getting does not address your original inquiry nor is it what you would like to hear. I installed and de-installed Bose Invisibuilt for 2 years. People were generally not pleased about 50% of the time. We generally shoot for 100% customer satisfaction. I don't recall the model numbers but it consisted of equipment that was based on 12v amplifiers cobbled to take 120v. The speakers have 1.2 or 1.4 ohm loads and are of poor quality. Customers usually chose other solutions after demoing the Bose against Elan, Niles, Boston, Adcom, etc. I do not see in your posting the mention of any other multiroom electronics. You may want to open your mind to other possibilities. Try www.elanhomesystems.com, www.crestron.com, Niles, Xantech, Boston(their VR inwall/inceiling are amazing) and whatever else you can find.

This does not answer your question Kristen, but usually only one or two people in a household even want to understand a fancy remote - Sometimes a secondary, inexpensive universal learning remote that allows the "not so techno-savvy" to just "watch TV" is an alternative to training. The "savvy" people can still pick up the HotRod remote and blast off.


That said, here's a little project for you: Take screen captures of your individual screens, paste them into MS Paint (provided you're using Windows), crop them down (If they happen to pick up any peripheral screen content that you don't want), and then cut 'n paste them into a Word.doc. From there you can size the images, arrange them, and use Word's drawing tools to point arrows to specific buttons. Make up and save a boilerplate document as a template and then you'll just have to edit it a little and import new screen captures when new functions, equipment, or screen designs are needed for another job. You should be able to make a nice little 2 to 4 page manual and put it in a cheap little report cover WITH YOUR COMPANY's LOGO on the cover. They can slip it under the couch, or hide it under magazines, referencing it only when they send their guests off in search of snacks.
If the screens alone are not visual enough bring the remote up to the screen you're currently explaining and then drop it in your scanner and get a shot, hard buttons and all. Crop it and drop it into your manual. When they come for another copy after they spill salsa on the original you can print one out, say you normally charge $5.00, and then hand them one for free as a good will gesture.


Excellent point Shoe:. HEY! Bose Custom Solutions Div. installers !! Share the intellectual wealth if you're really out there. (Or are you exploring the possiblilities of opening a satellite store in Sonora?)


Everyone's been feeling that, I guess it's time for me to romp on Bose and feel a little too..

Friends don't let friends hear Bose. Though not all four letter words belong in the same category it is serendipitous that the word Bose just happens to have the same number of letters as some other words that have been used in this thread to describe their products, not to mention longform derogatory terms like "twisty-cubes".

If it weren't so why would so many be saying it? If it were otherwise, why wouldn't most of us listen to Bose? They market to us, are we just deaf to the wisdom of owning Bose?


From this we can deduce Bose speakers are capable of creating their own suction.

Ten years ago I just gave a set of 901's away, there was definitely a vacuum created when they left. Lots of open space and no more funky speakers that demanded hard walls to reflect off of. (And don't even think about putting them in corners - In tandem, they become one device which emits a death-sound.)

You'd think that a manufacturer with products to be PROUD of would readily provide access to the key features AND specifications that make their products so desirable.

I went to Bose' website/s and found what little information was available to be quite vague, heavy on hype, and totally lacking in technical details/specs. The links leave you chasing your tail, back to the same pictures and you cannot "drill down" any deeper for more information.

Bose® Built-INvisible System
[Link: bosestore.com]

[Link: bose.com]


Using several search engines I entered Bose along with TSnnn (200, 400 and 600 separately of course) as my search criteria and came up with only this:

[Link: hometech.com.mx]

I also tried different combinations of the same search along with the term "Built-INvisible" - no evidence of the TSnnn series could be found.

Perhaps technical specs and other secret information is reserved for Bose Custom Solutions Div. installers. (You don't get the skinny until you're in the boileroom = Amway business model.)

I do see that even with Bose' custom stuff they want you to richochet sound off your walls from little appendages full of small drivers. I'm not feeling confident that I'd like the outcome.

Okay, I at least TRIED to find out about the TS' series products before commenting, but I could not gather any information so I won't comment directly.

A friend of mine has repeatedly purchased whatever Bose system Costco or BestBuy is selling and put it on display in his showroom as a SELLING TOOL to market his other lines of merchandise.
He made sure to buy the highest Bose line available to the general public so people would see exactly what they'd just heard when they came to him from the mass-market stores.
I remember listening to the considerably more expensive Bose setup A/B'd against the (discontinued) NHT Wave Sub/Sat combo. All the speakers were within inches of each other in regards to placement and the wires could be visibly traced to the switching box for those wary of trickery.
It was a slam dunk - Two similarly rated systems and Bose was hopelessly outclassed.
After customers heard that they were instantaneously at one with the saleperson.

Not to mention the fact that if they still wanted upscale options he had Klipsch, Monitor Audio, NHT, Paradigm, Velodyne, and B & W in his lineup. If they were looking for more it was with confidence the customer walked to the room and the next level of equipment. The Bose name was instrumental in marketing OTHER SPEAKERS!

Granted this comparison was not with the TS series, but if you look at the Bose links above you'll see that the TS' infloor sub is steeped in "Acousti-mess" technology, and they expect your contracter to have accomodated them by pre-placing your walls so as to be an integral part of their "reflective" strategy. What if I have window treatments or textile wall coverings? What if that sound absorbing material is only on ONE side of the room?

To my untrained eye the TS series looks like LS in stealth clothing.

"Quality is remembered long after the novelty of low price is forgotten"

"When purchasing Oats, those willing to settle for Oats which have already been through the horse will find them at a reduced price"


Shoe is not listing the Creme' de la Creme', just some good upper to midrange solutions that provide decent ambient sound. If Bose can't compete in that horserace, why would anyone want their reputation to be pictured in the same "thought bubble" with Bose?

Kristen, I envy you. The bottom line is you ARE making cold hard green, selling soft brown toilet oddities. The only good Bose I ever heard with the name Bose on it, was a pair of ancient Bose speakers with 15" woofers in them and like 3 or 4 mids and tweets....they were bigger than my kid brother. Things have changed....and so has the size of their speakers. I've seen a lot more Bose Sound Reinforcement products than home products, and those too suck a pair. They load a plastic speaker with 8 of these tiny little drivers and call it full range. NO...I've heard them...they're far from it. They're great for voice, but can't handle music at all without the bass module. They're expensive, sound like crap, and you have to have a processor that....who knows what it does....dedicated to a seperate amp for your Bose speakers. All of this adds up to cost 2-3 times as much as a good pair of JBL's would. The JBL's would at least give you the full range sound you need for music reproduction, without expensive processors and bass modules. But at least with the Bose you get the name. I'm from the old school of Bigger IS Better, and Bose should really try to make things bigger....they might be able to compete on a higher level. I can't think of ANYTHING Bose makes, that sounds good. But I applaud you for finding those who do and making a profit off them. Sorry to have joined the gang of "Bose Bashers" but it's just my personal oppinion.