This is a take-over job.

I have (11) 70v manual volume controls all side-by-side on the wall.

The customer is asking for a solution that would replace those 11 volume controls by an automatic system that would set different volume levels based on the time of the day. I can take care of the control side with RTI.

I not aware of anything that can do this, but 70v has been less than 1% of our business for the past 15 years, so there might be some products out there that I'm not aware of...

Replacing the amp is not an option as it is located approx 250 feets away, in another building. One run of 16/2 is coming to the 11 volume controls.

Any inputs are welcome.

I don't have too much info as I don't do much 70v either, but why is replacing the amp not an option? I understand it is not located in that area. Are you saying that replacing will not give any level of control based on it's location?

I will say that Atlas has a system that is highly configurable and they offer their own keypads that might allow for this. I have no experience with it and cannot give any model numbers. I did see it at a disty expo a short while back and it looked pretty impressive.

hmmm....wow. interesting. at first i thought you said 11 70v amps but reread it and you have 1 amp going into 11 VC's to create essentially "11 zones" what a hack way of doing this.

Budget?

Ideally you would rip all of that out, bring the equipment to the VC location get two DBX1260's since you can "stack them" and 6 CDi's splitting the channels up for a total of 12 available channels. zone them properly with the DBX's and insert your RTI control and you have the RIGHT solution. Im just not sure if this place is willing to spend the money todo this right. You can actually program the Zonepros todo exactly what he is asking.

11 Volume controls is certainly not unheard of in this world, although it will not allow your customer do to what they wish.

Zonepro would certainly give some flexibility, but that would require separate amps for each area that wanted it's own level schedule. Your wiring does not support that type of installation, based only on what you have written.

This is perhaps something that a conversation could solve rather than simply tossing ideas,,,,

All of the other suggestions would work. I would put in an Avocation matrix, with Crown 70v amps. If you are looking for a way to do timed events with a control system such as URC or RTI, check out the link below. These devices allo you to program the time clock via the web and set the relays to close at certain times. Then plug the replay into your control system.

For example, run an If then Macro that states when relay is closed, turn volume in zone 2 (dining rm) up 20%. Then you have the time clock close its relay at 8pm every night.

[Link: relaypros.com]

Mike

Remove the volume controls and replace with single pole single throw light switches, tap the speakers at appropriate power levels and put Xantech RGC11 remote gain controls up at the source end. Automate with control of your choice.

Bless you, my son.


You give the reason that the amp is not replaceable as it's 250 feet away. However, that 16-ga pair could easily take an audio signal that distance. The very worst you could do would be to get a small 70 volt amp, say a small TOA, connect the output of whatever is over there, and run its 70V output on that 16 ga wire to your volume control location. Match the voltage at the VC end so that you feed amplifiers there.

You need a remotely controlled volume control, or eleven, actually. It could be that the cheapest way to get this is to have eleven (probably 12) smaller amps, remotely controlled. Less power per amp would be needed. Ah, but how much do you have to pay for, or does it really exist: a 70V product with remote control and volume presets? I imagine it exists and is very pricey. Fred should know, or know who to send you to.

I like writing the name Gilderfluke, and they do some pretty strange things, so you oughta check with them as to whether they have any parts for this Rube Goldberg project.

I like the relay idea but don't know how it would actually work.


Of course all of us are idiots trying to answer because we don't have any idea why the amps are not at the central distribution point.

I think a hack job deserves a hack upgrade. Go to your local robot geek club and source you some servos and some kind of controller that you can write a RS232 driver for and have some fun.

Sounds like the beginning of what could turn out to be a total cluster F****.

Fred should have a good solution there, though.

Good luck.

Rane. You can install ceiling mics that adjust to ambient sound levels.

You can do that with the DBX zone pros too ;-)

You can do that with Biamp Nexia/Audia/Tesira as well...

Thus the fundamental problem that the customer has: they were provided a hack solution for a relatively simple problem to begin with. The original system shouldn't have been installed this way. There's no reason for the owner to manually adjust anything due to ambient noise levels, schedules, what have you.

Do the job properly and run 11 zones of 70V the 250' from the equipment closet to the space. Splice in to the existing circuits in a junction box above the volume controls and install a touch panel to replace the 11 VCs.

DBX probably isn't the best choice if 11 zones are truly required because as far as I know, there's no way to gang units together to create one large matrix in software. Rane probably isn't the best choice for the same reason. If you can scale down to six or fewer zones, then by all means go with what you can get your hands on, but be prepared to pay the distributor or a consultant for support. If I were posed the same situation, I'd sell a Biamp Tesira frame with strategically placed ceiling microphones to provide a consistent perceived level based on the ambient noise level, but you're going to need to become a dealer. Another option is the Symetrix SymNet platform, but you're going to need to become a dealer or buy from an internet distributor. QSC and Meyer Sound also offer very well designed options, but I don't have any experience with either of them. The other major DSP contender, ClearOne, doesn't offer an ANC feature...

Right.


Maybe, maybe not. You're assuming that the volume levels are to be changed in response to the environment, the clients, or whatever. It very well could be that management changes these levels to cause something to happen.

What if you want to announce that Happy Hour has started by changing up the music mix, which can be done automatically, turning off the music in the formal dining area, and raising the volume in the bar? Mikes that respond to ambient levels are not going to do the job at all.


Just as we don't know why the amplifier(s) can't be moved to the VC location, we don't know whether it's possible for another ten wires to be run.

Thank you very much everybody for all those informations. It's greatly appreciated.



Not really. I bid on this job at the beginning but my quote was "too expensive". Now that a local trunk-slammer has delivered the job at a lower price point but without the features asked, I'm called back to clean behind. So I don't f***in' care about the budget. It will be what it will be, take it or leave it.


This is EXACTLY what my customer want.



The main rack is located at the 2nd floor of another building, the tubing going to the area I want to work is 1/2", because the Genius who stole me the job figured out that if only one run of 16/2 was required for his poor design, than nobody would ever need to pull something else in that tubing...

Of course if I was able to run wires then I could easily convert the install to 8 ohms and do whatever I want, but I can't...

The funniest thing about it is that same Genius sold (8) 6-zones amps, and every one of them is running 1 output to 8 different areas where he installed the volume controls to sub-divide every zones. He could have sold 2 amps and get the same results...



However, thank you 3PedalMINI, vwpower44, Lowhz and all others. Great ideas that worth a closer look...

At the end of the day, it's the fault of the guy who bought the system. I'm assuming that he saw a quote, saw the difference, and said, "oh boy, it's cheaper. That inherently leads to a better system every single time"

Or not.

I'm confused by the paragraph talking about multiple amplifiers. Are there other areas being fed besides the one with 11 vc's on the wall?