I definitely don't have an unlimited budget but t this point I don't really have a budget. I tend not to ask. People often don't have any idea what things cost and when you have an imaginary number it can limit your options. I tend to just find out what they want, design a system with a couple of options if possible and present it. They either say yes or no. It's no then we decide what things they want to remove. It's worked for me.

Now on this system it's a fellow I work with so he would be fine with a bit a learning curve but I'm stilling billing him t&m so time is money. I'll admit that I'm hesitant to try a whole bunch of products that I have no experience with in one job. Plus I don't have access to any of those products through my current suppliers, with the exception of RTI.

All that said, I live trying new things. Especially new types of products.

The customer's biggest hot button is the music system. The tv in the bedroom, kitchen, and the surround sound system. Are not a big deal for him. He doesn't even want a Blu-ray in either room. He just wanted a cable box and since they are Apple users I suggested an Apple TV. I honestly don't see a problem with the remotes I plan to use. They are inexpensive and they work. It will only be two processors. They will hop into bed and turn on the news. Simple. Same in the living room. They will grab the remote and fire up the pvr. The Casatunes system is so easy to control they can just grab their phones and turn on whatever they want no problem and that includes the master bedroom speakers and living room speakers because of the AirPlay to those rooms. So for the music system it is really as easy as it can get. In this case I don't see how it can get easier, but that is probably due to my inexperience with integrated control systems.

Back to budget, like I said, I won't know until I present a package but I know what this guy makes. Same salary as me at the Fire Dept so while he might see a bigger value in investing more than I might think ( I learned long ago not to shop with my wallet) I know there is no money tree here.

I feel pretty good about my design but I am open to suggestions for sure. What would you set up with the equipment you mentioned, and how would it function?

Thanks for the interest,

Craig

if you are using seperate systems for surround and audio, why use casatunes over tried and true, bullet proof Sonos?

Going back to 70v and maybe I'm not understanding your design, but if you are using a 12ch amp for an outdoor zone only even if you use a snap amp your still more expensive then using a crown CDi 1000, by a few hundred bucks. The CDi can be split into two channels so you can dedicate 1 to the gazebo etc area and the other channel for the area you want a separate source. I am here to tell you it is RARE for an outdoor audio system to have a different source in another area of the yard UNLESS there is a video source in that zone. It's nice to have different zones for sources but the only time it will be changed is when your demoing the system for them. Obviously you need volume control and that us a reason to break them into zones, but for the size of the yard and what you want todo the CDi is perfect, also remember the CDi is only a 2u amp

You might not think you need that much power but remember two channels drops it to 500w /ch. also remember that with 70v and a quality speaker you can adjust the taps to create a even volume level even when using different types of speakers.

Bag the casa tunes idea, just go with sonos. It really is the right fit for this this type of job. If you think casa tunes is stupid simple you haven't played with sonos enough, and the new controller that is coming out in a few months makes it even easier and better (I have the beta on my note 3) I didn't think they could make it easier or better but man did they!

In this case when I buy the Casatunes system I can buy the companion 12 ch amp at a very nice discounted package price, which works out to be a little less than a CDi1000. That being said it doesn't make a better choice, just another cost effective one.

I see that I can use one ch of the CDi to handle the fire pit, gazebo, and hot tub, and tap them appropriately to balance the volume. Then I could use the other channel to do the courtyard. The difference there is that I lose the ability to turn off the fire pit and gazebo when not in use. The most commonly used outdoor area will be the hot tub. I could put a couple of volume controls out by the fire pit and gazebo to turn them down, but now I'm removing some of the control from the iOS app which complicates things a little more. Not enough to kill the idea. I mean how tough is it to just turn up a volume control when you first go out to an area? Not hard at all.

Regarding Sonos vs Casatunes, I don't know if you have ever used or seen a demo of Casatunes but it goes way beyond the capabilities of Sonos and is so easy to use. Just from a connection standpoint I would have to buy 8 Sonos Connect to equal the source and out put capabilities of the Casatunes Ct8 which would cost almost as much and take up a huge amount space in the rack not to mention 7 more things to plug in and network to. Plus with Casatunes ability to Airplay, it will turn on a a receiver automatically. If I put a Connect on an AVR the user has to turn it on which means grabbing another remote or getting a more sophisticated control system. Casatunes has triggers for turning on amplifiers, 1TB (upgradable) storage and much much more. I won't get into everything but it's worth a look. It is a really cool system. Plus I make a lot when I sell it. I make nothing selling Sonos. I also buy Casatunes from a supplier who offers incredible support and customer service and this huge to me.

I think I'm sticking with Casatunes but I'm very much interested in the Cdi1000. I'm going to revisit my design.

Thanks again for the input and please continue with the suggestions.

Craig

Craig,
those Casatunes specs sound great on paper. We have been reading paper specs for a very long time and they almost never work out the way they say.

You will be seemingly the ONLY person on this forum to use Casatunes. That should tell you something. Many of us prefer other options to Sonos but none seem to pick Casatunes.

I wish you the very best of luck and hope this works out for you but I want to tell you this is not a proper design. You have to look at the risks of botching the whole system and loosing the faith and trust of a friend.

Thank you for your input. I see what you are saying but for the sake of being the devils advocate and suggest that if as you say, no one is using it, then how can they know it doesn't work? I sure would like to hear from someone who has used it. This person could say with certainty what does and doesn't work. My supplier has the system set up at their facility. I played with it for about an hour and it seems to work very well.

Can you please elaborate on "this is not a proper system design"?

Thank you.

Craig.

.

Craig,
others here don't know we've corresponded a bit by PM on this, but it's not been anything crucial to the thread.

One thing bothers me, though. As I understand it, you're making home runs for all speakers and are controlling everything remotely. I think you're using an iPad; it doesn't really matter as to what's bothering me.

A few years ago, aBus tried to change the industry, and now everybody who ran CAT5 to an aBus location is kicking themselves for not also installing home runs of speaker wire and running it past the control location. I wonder if, some time soon, you might really wish you had designed this system so that it could be controlled in a more simple way, say with physical volume controls out in the yard... Please try to think of other ways of controlling the outdoor volume, and prep for that.

Ernie,

The wiring is already complete as part of a renovation done a while back. Yes all of the wires for the speakers are home run. The ones that go out to the back yard (gazebo and fire pit) are accessible and could have local volume controls out at those areas which I will do if I go the 70v route as has been suggested. The wires for the courtyard and hot tub areas could accommodate a local volume control with some difficulty. Each home run to those areas is accessible from the attic, prior to dropping into the exterior walls/soffits.

Whether I use multiple Sonos Connects or the Casatunes system, I can control volumes in these areas using the associated control apps so I think I'm OK in that regard for now.

Thanks very much for the suggestion.

Craig

There's some interesting information about wire sizes and gauges in the chart linked to at [Link: remotecentral.com]. Or, as some have said in the past, there's information that I find interesting!

Thank you for posting that. It's very interesting indeed.

Craig.

so your the guy wiring the houses with blank plates by the light switches in every room.

“Also forget about the sonarray, sounds like total A$$ you can get much better performance from rock speakers or my favorite sonance mariners on an aluminum fence post driven down in the ground. this way you can tap each speaker for proper volume and you can simply daisy chain.”

If you can use multiple Mariner speakers (not just a single pair) in this zone, then the acoustic performance of several 6 ½ inch, 2-way speakers can outperform the SONARRAY system. However, there are a few issues to consider.

Most well-designed 2-channel or multi-channel amps for distributed audio can drive a 4-ohm load which would be two pair of Mariners or Rocks. If you need to run more than two pair of speakers, then you might want to consider the 70v version called the FMS660. Then as mentioned, “you can tap each speaker for proper volume and simply daisy chain.” However, this is a 70v methodology and not applicable to 8-ohm systems. You’ll also need a 70v amp for this zone which the budget may not allow for.

If you want to stay with an 8-ohm system and have continuous coverage around the zone, then SONARRAY will do this for you. Namely, blanket the entire zone in seamless sound without gaps in coverage while presenting a reasonable load to the amplifier. In this regard, SONARRAY is a better choice for covering up to 2000 square feet compared to a pair of Mariners’ or Rocks in that same space. And importantly for many clients, the system can easily recede into the landscape.

The key to optimizing the performance of SONARRAY is to use high quality amplification with 100-150 watts/channel. SONARRY will still sound good driven by lower power discrete output device amps (no power ICs’), but won’t sound as dynamic and impressive. Dealers who have been really successful with SONARRAY package the SONOS zone player with line-level outputs with our Sonamp 2120T power amp. The 2120T is rated for 120 watts/channel into 8 ohms and achieves its high current output through its high-quality toroidal transformer, over-specified power supply and fully-discrete output stage.

IC-based amplifiers cannot source enough current to begin with, can run hot and then pull-back their current output in an effort to remain reliable. This in effect acts as a dynamic compressor and noticeably restricts bass impact, punch and realism. An extra pair of speakers added to these amplifiers can actually make things worse in some ways.

Many of our distributors have Mariners and the SONARRAY system on display for demo. Please compare the two systems for yourself and decide which approach you prefer.

We put the Sonarray on display at the past Infocomm in Orlando, and frankly, I was surprised at several things.

First, we were not using a superb amplifier. For whatever reason, it was an 80 watt Japanese manufacturers product.

Second, spl was fine in a noisy, convention floor environment. Sound quality was excellent.

Given the choice, a high current amplifier driving them would have sounded even better, I think. I'm very comfortable recommending them to folks...

Ken, thanks for the response. The Sonarray is a cool product for sure. But I'm pretty much sold on the CDi1000 and a 70 volt set up. The way the back yard is set up, the sub for the Sonarray would not offer good coverage in most areas so I'm going to go with speakers with 8" woofers in the three areas. To keep the cost down the customer wants to use a minimal amount of speakers. In this case that turns out to be 5. Later when he wishes he had more I can show up and add them as the CDi1000 has power to spare. Plus it will be extra cost to re-run new speaker wire outside as it's currently 16awg. I think the advice to go 70 volt is sound and so that's what I'm proposing to do.

Craig