that can be controlled by RS232. I've checked out the Russound CAV6.6 and has almost everything I'm looking for especailly the ability to control the amps remotely by zone. Would almost prefer more soures than zones.

This one is very good, gaining a lot of momentum and endorsements from consultants. Intuitive interface, and high quality manufacturing
[Link: biamp.com]



This one is well established
[Link: mediamatrix.peavey.com]



This stuff is top drawer. Bring your checkbook
[Link: bssaudio.com]

I have done 7 pieces of cav 6.6 and let me tell you , they have a lot of things to fix . Software and hardware has couple of bugs , and it is scary if tech.support tels you - "yes ,we know there is a problem and we are working on it" .But we do not live in perfect world so I would say for that price it is not so bad.

OK, Let me ask this... Why would you need to control a Russound Via RS-232????? Those are tageted at entry level projects. Certainly NOT aproject that would be full of AMX/Crestron/Elan Via etc etc etc....

As for a Awesome complete solution similar to the Russ, but with TONS of inputs and awesome build quality, look att the B&K CT Series. The CT600 is just amazing for its $2400 List price. 9 Inputs Plus Built in Tuner (A/V inputs too) PLUS Local source inputs, RS-232, Great Inexpensive keypads, 6 Zones, Plus 50 (or is it 35? no matter)Watts x 12 of B&K Amplifier. I dont know how they do it......

Thanks, I thought I checked out the B&K It's close to being perfect at least the CT310. I need more inputs than zones! I have trouble understanding why these switcher are so expensive other than no competition. Not the amps but the pre -amps. There are receivers that offer almost as much capabilities. Yes if this was for a single room stand alone system but this is for background music on the deck or in the kitchen! Just my opinion.

The price isn't bad. We're the hardware problems major? I could care less about the software as long as I can talk to and control the CAV6.6 via RS232.

Because we think we have a way of doing this without all the expense of the other i.e. Crestron, AMX. There is so much tied up in basic hardware. A Denon AVR3805 reciever has as more switch and logic cabapilites than many of the distributed audio switchers have at a fraction of the cost. Is the build quality as good many be may be not but it close. The AVR3805 has seven zones - actually - 8 (7.1) that have independent volume controls and all the source switching at $1199.99.

Huh???
What?????

A Denon AVR-3805 is only 3 zone capable.

When I think of a "basic" pre-amp multi-source/multi-zone RS232 control isn't something that comes to mind. Especially if you are looking for something inexpensive. SpeakerCraft has a 6x6 that retails right around $800 bucks or so but currently it is only IR Controllable.

So what did the Russound peice not accomplish for you??


Robbie S

Because scads of 3805 are made the over all cost to produce is much lower than the distributed audio stuff. The Russound has 6 A/V in and 6 out with amps (12x20 total 240) the 3805 has 11 analog/7 digital/7 video inputs not counting the EXT audio and (3) component video with (7x120=840 I realize that not real all channels driven but cut that by 50% and you have 420.) And you have (1) fixed zone output (1) variable output and (3) tape outputs. With all the inputs/outputs on today A/V reciever it is hard to understand that the CAV6.6 is about the lowest priced piece out there and is doesn't come close to the swithcing/proccessing and power buit into the 3805 that retails for approximately what the cost of the CAV6.6.

It wasn't that the Russound didn't do what I needed. It does - but when you compare it to the capabilities of todays A/V recievers the distributed audio stuff is very expensive.

I would agree that yes it does seem expensive for what you get but you have to look at market share. Everybody and their brother wants (has) a surround system. And they are constantly upgrading to the latest greatest features. With bacground music you just install it and it sits there and functions. Very few people upgrade their background music systems controllers unless they quit working or reach their expandability limits. The production numbers alone for Surround Processors verses Distributed Audio Processors is astounding. This has an immediate impact on unit costs.

That's why they call it custom.

As for the 3805 outputs thing. Let's get on the same page here. There is a difference between outputs and zone outputs. The 3805 is still only a 3 zone system.

Robbie S

Actually the only difference is how the outputs are matrixed to the inputs. The outputs don't care if they're pre-amp outs, tape outs or mutli-zone outs. The CAV6.6 has a total of 12 inputs and outputs the 3805 has over 40 so the 3805 can easily handle the switching needed to run more zones if it was designed to do so. And the reason custom is bad is that it is preceived to be expensive and it is. People don't typically have a problem with labor they do hardware. I have many times charged $500 to install a $700 and under HTIB.

How are you calculating the outputs? There are only 3 stereo preamp outputs which route through the twin ST MUX chips inside. These are the only outputs suitable for multi-room. The RS232 commands only support 3 zones and it only has 7 commands for each zone, keeping in mind this is a slow single link for all 3 (really 2 zones as the first zone is the receiver itself).

So how are you able to make any more zones from this? And why would this be better than a real muti-zone product that has a real matrix switch, a real protocol and the ability to have every room able to listen to its own tuner or music server?

This is the kind of job that gets us all in trouble as the client may have seen another bid with a real product in it and then YOU tell him that this AV receiver can do it all for a fraction of the price. Meanwhile two years later when we are replacing this system with a real multi-zone system the guy is pissed that someone oversold what the system was really designed for and he has now ended up paying more than the original bid because he bought two systems..

NO WHERE did I say I was going to use the 3805 in place of the CAV6.6. Did I! go back and reread. This will be difficult but think out of the box!!! Inputs and outputs don't care what they are hooked too - FOR THE MOST PART. In the past - before anyone was making multi-source/zone boxes you would use a tape loop and your record selector to do the same thing - two zones multiple sources. The 3805 has over twice the electronics as the CAV6.6. By recofiguring - not adding just reconfiguring - the available capablities inside the 3805 I could have 3 zones powered (six of the seven internal amps and if you scaled those down you could get 6 zones at 60 per channel per zone) with over 10 input sources including one tuner built in and 10 zones without power with both digital and analog capabilities. Now do you understand. Why can Denon make a 3805 with all it's capabilities and quality and the "CUSTOM" crowd be so much higher in price but overall lower in capabilites. Yes you do have the economy of scale involved but it would be nice if it worked for us and not against us.

Ok, ok so you plan to use all the amplification inside the 3805 (Hmmm) can you show me what protocol commands you are using to control the different sources and different preamp levels? I have been unable to see the status commands for this as well.
As far as what input to what output, sure the inputs and outputs don't care, but the MUX and signal processing does! Look at the data sheets of the MUX circuit and chips, you will see exactly what they are capable of. But beyond that the control of the unit is why you would not want to use it in this fashion. BTW what kind of keypads or user interfaces are you using for these 3-6 zones? Are you talking about just using the RC-617 and an IR remote control?

What would you say the total cost of this kind of a system is? Have you installed this in a job? How many jobs?

The MUX chips in the 3805 have only a single two way MUX gate this allows only the receiver and the zone 2 preamp out to be processed through the DSP. The 3805 does not support ANY digital signal processing for the 3rd zone output. In zone 3 they do a clever trick on the board with a two way logic gate before the MUX so that they can deliver a fixed preamp level. This means you need additional pre-amplification, amplification and controls to make the 3rd zone really do anything. I stand by my previous post in that designing a job with this 3805 receiver for multi-zone multi source is not the best possible solution. For an $1100 receiver this is a very cool component, but you got to be kidding me if you think the very basic MUX in this device is even in the same league as some of the matrix switches on the market.